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no more black hole comms in story EC?

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Fettered's Avatar


Fettered
09.28.2012 , 01:58 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
Not anywhere I saw. And I've ran TFB SM, and theres no way a full un modded no augmented columi group is going to clear that. Would love to see that fraps video. The last boss is way too healer intesive to keep people up in just columi
For what it is worth I believe this is the post being referenced, but that doesn't make you wrong it just means this is what the devs have said they intend, be that the reality or not.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...48&postcount=7
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I asked Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about when players can expect to see Terror from Beyond and Explosive Conflict in the Group Finder. He said it's definitely something we're planning to do, but had some information about why they aren't in quite yet:

Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear, but we currently have no way to enforce or communicate the recommended power level. This could cause frustration for players who are undergeared, and would bog down the process of getting into the content, which is contrary to the purpose of the tool. Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace, so we want to make sure the timing and the rewards are right before we do this.

troyh's Avatar


troyh
09.28.2012 , 02:01 PM | #112
Another poor decision from EA. Who cares if you get some BH comms for doing SM EC or SM TFB. Is it really hurting anyone to have more geared players available to help with harder content? Columi should be dropped or given away for free like Recruit because it is just as helpful in PVE as recruit is in PVP. Let the bosses in EC/TFB drop 2 BH comms each. You CAN'T farm something that you're only able to do one time a week. Did bioware remove the lockout from this and I didn't know about it?

HEY BIOWARE! Doubt you're listening.. but way to give the players what they want again.. /sarcasm

At this rate I see no point in doing EC or TFB story mode.. and good luck clearing hardmode in just rakata. Better hope everyone is an allstar at their class.
Jedi Covenant ~ Warlörd Legacy ~
<Unicorn Stampede> Troyy 50 Mara ~ T-roy 50 Merc ~ Xtecy 50 OP
Fatman ~ Warlörd Legacy ~ <Aftermath> Tröy 50 Sent
<Companion> Vette 50 Scoundrel ~ Makö 50 Sage ~ Troyy 50 Commando

yoshua's Avatar


yoshua
09.28.2012 , 02:01 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by Fettered View Post
For what it is worth I believe this is the post being referenced, but that doesn't make you wrong it just means this is what the devs have said they intend, be that the reality or not.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...48&postcount=7
Thanks.

I still stand by the last fight is way too healer intensive for columi, would love to see a fraps vid of a group in full columi, un modded do it, but from the 2 runs I had at it? lol no.
Yoshua Acero
Pre-Cu Bria Vet - Master Doc/Master swords

Paid 15$ at Gamestop for my CE!

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
09.28.2012 , 02:12 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
Not anywhere I saw. And I've ran TFB SM, and theres no way a full un modded no augmented columi group is going to clear that. Would love to see that fraps video. The last boss is way too healer intesive to keep people up in just columi
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
We do have plans to make more Operations available in the group finder in the future, but (as others have mentioned) we do want to avoid sending groups into content that might be too challenging (due to the players being undergeared or less organized). This recent post in response to whether Terror from Beyond would be in the Group Finder has some relevant info:
Quote:
Quote:
Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear, but we currently have no way to enforce or communicate the recommended power level. This could cause frustration for players who are undergeared, and would bog down the process of getting into the content, which is contrary to the purpose of the tool. Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace, so we want to make sure the timing and the rewards are right before we do this.
Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
No, you arent, you are supposed to access it in Rakata and progress getting the BH/Campaign gear until you have enough gear to down Kephess. That is how progression works. Guilds weren't doing it in full Rakata. Please show me proof of the statement. Guilds don't even take new people into this without the members having at least half 146 gear already. You make a statement, I raid weekly and I know what our guild brings through. We have had EC HM on farm for a while.
Guild on my old server downed Kephess on HM the first week the instance came out. That's them doing in in full Rakata. They all unsubbed the following week because they thought it was too easy (the content). So, you're wrong.

I agree in your idea of progression. I believe that to be the final boss of a raid, or the final few, you should have to get the gear from the earlier bosses, but that's not how SWTOR works. You can completely clear a HM operation w/out getting a single piece of loot.

Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
How do you get gear for the first hard mode then? Please explain. Previously it was get the gear from the story modes and progress into hard modes. Now that progression has been removed. Please explain with that progression gone how it is meant to be done? K thanks.
No, you never HAD to do story modes to get the gear to do HM's. You could have done HM Flashpoints, got all of your Columi there, and then gone straight into HM EV/KP to get Rakata. I'm sorry, but do you think about what your'e saying because I can't believe you completely miss that. SM EV/KP drop the exact same gear minus weapons, that you can get from HM FP's. That's how you can progress w/out doing story modes.

Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
True, BiS people would. You don't need BiS to complete the content. 55 coms a week is a piece of bh gear a week Plus if you are lucky/good enough to get the gear drops. 12 items at 35-60 coms each. With the progression removed will take much longer than 2 months. And NO ONE outside of the hardest of gamers are going to run EVERY daily and EVERY weekly. So, even if your figures are right, that is someone who does nothing but plays swtor every day for about 4-8 hours a day. Yeah, that is feasible.
What? What are you talking about? It's 2 months for Earpiece, Implantsx2, Bracers, Belt, Headpiece, Chest, Gloves, Pants, and Boots. Are you talking about relics too? You do know those relics are pretty much trash right?

Here's the other thing though, you complain that you can't gear from SM's for BH gear, but you do realize that you can do HM EC and HM TFB for the gear, or do all the dailies and weeklys. Two viable ways that you can do both or only one, and yet you keep complaining that you can't do super-easy-mode SM EC that takes 1.5 hours in a pug group. Really?

Plus "4-8 hours a day"? Lol. HM FP's take anywhere from 30 minutes (HM BT) to maybe an hour. Where's the other 3-7 hours? Rofl.

Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
Story modes are gated, you've provided no proof that TFB is can be downed in un modded columi, and no one has posted it. It is at minimum a mix of Rakta, with a smattering of columi.
I just proved it with a developer's post. I think I win on this one. Plus, I like how you throw in "un modded Columi". You don't mod gear from anything operation-related. So you could mod all of your columi gear with MK-6 items to help you out. Choosing not to is your problem, not the games.

Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post
So, if your last statement is spot on. What is the progression to be able to raid? I mean in hard modes? From every thing you said? Dailies. No thank you. I want to raid to progress. Not run dailies until I can get into hard modes. That isnt progression, it is a growth stunt to make you grind out dailies.
Let me explain it again:
1) Get to lvl 50
2) Do regular lvl 50 FP's to get some better than starting lvl 50 gear
3) Do HM FP's to get Columi gear. You don't want to do HM FP's, then do SM EV/KP to get Columi,
4) Do HM EV/KP to get Rakata. Or you can do SM EC/TFB (Please notice in the patch 1.4 notes that SM EC was really nerfed).
5) Do HM EC/TFB.

So, you can get from 1 --> 5 without doing a single story mode. Got it?

Runnamuker's Avatar


Runnamuker
09.28.2012 , 02:16 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
Actually, the gear progression is fine. Get to Lvl 50, do HM FP's and get Columi gear. Do HM EV/KP and get Rakata gear or do SM TFB and SM EC to get Rakata gear.
I understand what you're saying, but understand that HM EV/KP are much easier than EC or TFB in that regard, and to not be able to even inch your way slightly closer to better gear after doing the harder runs seems a bit silly.

I'm not advocating for free give-aways for the top notch gear, but groups and guilds will run EV and KP and not bother with EC since the reward is better for the easier route, and TFB SM groups will become available only as pugs once guilds get the fight strats down. If you want players (geared or not) to try these runs then you have to add the little carrot of reward at the end for them to strive for.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.28.2012 , 02:25 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
And that's where we are today. Now The Casuals can experience all of that wonderful content. If you're still complaining, then it's about the loot. If you want the loot, then rise to the challenge and/or put the work in.
Actually, we're not there. Not all the Story Mode raids are in the Group Finder or targeted towards non-progression players. Further, if it's going to be pointless to gear progression, then it really needs to have a steep decrease in difficulty. Groups you get via group finder are an odd bunch. I've had at least ten occasions now where my DPS Sage has had more Health than the Tank.

I don't mind having Story Mode not give out the best loot. Loot isn't why I play. Further, the game gives non-progression minded folks a means to get decent gear anyway (Hence why I often outgear tanks). But I would like to see story mode move to a place where if I get a newbie tank who needs to learn or a healer who hasn't learned to manage power, I don't waste a night.

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
09.28.2012 , 02:30 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Runnamuker View Post
I understand what you're saying, but understand that HM EV/KP are much easier than EC or TFB in that regard, and to not be able to even inch your way slightly closer to better gear after doing the harder runs seems a bit silly.

I'm not advocating for free give-aways for the top notch gear, but groups and guilds will run EV and KP and not bother with EC since the reward is better for the easier route, and TFB SM groups will become available only as pugs once guilds get the fight strats down. If you want players (geared or not) to try these runs then you have to add the little carrot of reward at the end for them to strive for.
1 - Have you tried SM EC since 1.4. For the third time in this thread, I've stated they nerfed SM EC into the ground. I'm assuming you're comparing HM EV/KP to SM EC/TFB, right?
2 - There is a little carrot - It's completing the weekly which gives BH comms.

If you're complaining that SM TFB is too hard for the gear BW expects you to be able to complete it in, then that's a tuning issue, much like people complained that the FP LI was too hard for the gear it dropped. If that's the case, complain that SM TFB is too hard and should be tuned down. There's nothing wrong with that. But wanting access to BH gear from Story mode EC/TFB is jumping the gear progression from Columi straight to BH. That isn't how it should go.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I don't mind having Story Mode not give out the best loot. Loot isn't why I play. Further, the game gives non-progression minded folks a means to get decent gear anyway (Hence why I often outgear tanks). But I would like to see story mode move to a place where if I get a newbie tank who needs to learn or a healer who hasn't learned to manage power, I don't waste a night.
I somewhat understand and sympathize, but they same thing can be said of the queue finder for HM FP's Trust me, I've played MMO's off and on for 8 years. You're going to find people who aren't up to par with the gear they're wearing, whether it's someone who's bad in fresh greens, to someone who is still bad, but got carried and is wearing pretty high-end gear.

Someone who's going to do any sort of role in a group whether it's dungeons, raids, flashpoints, or operations, should have some experience with their class and mechanics. That's what getting to level 50 was for.

What you're asking for isn't new and will never be fully prevented in any sort of setting.

Nostramas's Avatar


Nostramas
09.28.2012 , 02:57 PM | #118
You are having a very difficult time keeping people involved in the game, and your promises keep falling short.

You said TfB would not drop any new gear, but would help bridge the gap to get people into BH gear faster. That is a lie.

SM EC Did not need to be nerfed.

Give people a reason to DO SM EC and TfB, and you buy yourselves a bit more time before the ************ hits a cataclysm. Who cares that we can get BH coms in SM, especially considering The ridiculous new pricing introduced.

I didn't mind doing SM operations, as it gave me something to do with my guildmates, but now there is hardly any reason whatsoever to do them.

With EV/KP it was not a big deal, because you had Nightmare mode, now you can't even introduce this in a timely fashion.

I love this game, but you keep making really poor decisions, and pushing people that really don't want to quit to want to quit.

PugLife's Avatar


PugLife
09.28.2012 , 04:20 PM | #119
Why are we still left in the dark as to why NIGHTMARE MODE KP no longer drops coms?
You haven't addressed this issue at all.

Projawa's Avatar


Projawa
09.28.2012 , 04:32 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by Nostramas View Post
You are having a very difficult time keeping people involved in the game, and your promises keep falling short.

You said TfB would not drop any new gear, but would help bridge the gap to get people into BH gear faster. That is a lie.

SM EC Did not need to be nerfed.

Give people a reason to DO SM EC and TfB, and you buy yourselves a bit more time before the ************ hits a cataclysm. Who cares that we can get BH coms in SM, especially considering The ridiculous new pricing introduced.

I didn't mind doing SM operations, as it gave me something to do with my guildmates, but now there is hardly any reason whatsoever to do them.

With EV/KP it was not a big deal, because you had Nightmare mode, now you can't even introduce this in a timely fashion.

I love this game, but you keep making really poor decisions, and pushing people that really don't want to quit to want to quit.
Exactly. I don't understand why Bioware is trying to make things harder and create divisions among players. Sure, BH comms were being doled out like candy. There's nothing wrong with that because it's fun, it gives people a reason to run easier content with newbies or inexperienced players or alts or just to hang out with people they know, and don't know. And when casual guilds want to get into harder content, the BH comms provides a good way to get them up to speed. It also encourages more people to run SM TFB, it's easier to fill spots due to raider attrition, increases player mingling, increases player interest in trying hardmodes. There are just so many tangible and intangible reasons why nerfing the rate of BH comm acquisition is counterproductive.

My main is already geared for hardmodes but I was still looking forward to running SM EC/TFB for the comms. Getting gear is not just for my main but for my alts and pets, and guess what, it's FUN. But for the first time I've felt compelled to NOT log on because even though there's more content now, there's less to do outside of progression raids, ironically enough. Grinding BH comms through the weekly/dailies is NOT conducive to retaining players. I'm also curious why BH comms were removed from KP Nightmare- this action contradicts their official explanation. It's clear BH comms no longer drop in all these places in order to prolong the gear grind which is actually antithetical to player retention- another bit of irony. I'm dumbfounded by BIoware's thin reasoning.