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BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
09.27.2012 , 11:38 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Haggardbr View Post
I wonder what BW's devs have in their minds to nerf so drastically the range of two of the most used classes in the game, the Vanguards and the Powertechs...

I mean, both of them got 2 of the most powerful abilities nerfed in range... they've dropped from 30 meters to 10 meters!

I mean... WTH!!!???

Assault Vangs and Pyro Ptechs already don't have either a 1 min cc nor a gap closer and now this!

In my opinion (and I believe that's not only me that thinks like me) those two classes ARE NOT melee range classes... of course they have close quarters abilities (just like snipers / gunslinger and these are not melee classes) but that doesn't mean we need to be less than 10 meters close to the enemy all the time! Most of our abilities have a 30 meter range (hammer shot, full auto, sitcky grenade and many others).

To me, those classes are more like MEDIUM RANGE classes (15 to 25 meters), a step before the real ranged ones (snipers / gunslingers - 25 to 35 meters) and the melee ones (force users 15 and less).

So why the hell we're getting out abilities range nerfed?

All because of the PvP cry babies I supposed, because they can't work with tactic to take down vangs / ptechs and so they cry and cry over and over again to nerf the classes!

So BW, why don't you give us the ability to use sabers or swords already!???
OR EVEN BETTER why don't you NERF THE WHOLE GAME ALREADY!!!!???

Some may say that this is all QQ'ing, but it's not... I'm complaining (not crying around) about unfair changes to our abilities, changes that will affect PvE more than PvP...

People need to put into their minds that this game is not about PvP only, there are people like me that prefer PvE a lot more!

If there's a class to be nerfed that's the marauders, if one of those guys jump on you, no matter the kind of gear you have or how strong you are, with only 3 or 4 hits, you're down!

Or even better... work to fix the damn resolver bar, or whatever it is to make everything fair for everybody, because I've seen a lot of complaining about this matter too!



So BW, PLEASE, for God's sake...

Stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!
Fullauto hits for bupkiss as a PT. The only time to use that in PvE as a DPS is if there's a huge circle under the target or something. PT is most-definitely a 4-10m class in pve.

That said, the ability to activate 2 or 3 abilities outside that range made a gap closer unnecessary. Now that PTs can't do that, they need a way to get inside 10m quicker and they need it badly. I know this is a PvE post, but this was most-blatantly obvious the second I stepped in the huttball arena.

So basically, IR either needs to go back to 30m or PTs need Jet Charge absent speccing tank. TD is probably fine the way it is.

Haggardbr's Avatar


Haggardbr
09.27.2012 , 11:46 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Fullauto hits for bupkiss as a PT. The only time to use that in PvE as a DPS is if there's a huge circle under the target or something. PT is most-definitely a 4-10m class in pve.

That said, the ability to activate 2 or 3 abilities outside that range made a gap closer unnecessary. Now that PTs can't do that, they need a way to get inside 10m quicker and they need it badly. I know this is a PvE post, but this was most-blatantly obvious the second I stepped in the huttball arena.

So basically, IR either needs to go back to 30m or PTs need Jet Charge absent speccing tank. TD is probably fine the way it is.
It pratically narrows down to what Kamikazekommando said above (#49) that the gap from 30 to 10 meters will considerably reduce our DPS since hammer shot (troopers) won't do that much damage that we're used to do before where we could IR + AP + HIB then spam HS.

If they won't change it back to what it was, then "Storm" (trooper) and "Jet Charge" (BHs) really need to be changed to a base ability other than a skill one from the tanking tree.
Sarah'kerrígan Jhom Kérrigan Jhota
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
09.27.2012 , 11:48 AM | #53
I can't believe no one has brought this up yet...

Hate to break it to you, but even before the nerfs, VG/PT is a melee class. If you're not in melee ranged as an assault VG you're not doing it wrong.

These changes do not negatively affect PvE DPS at all. You should be in melee range as a VG/PT.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
09.27.2012 , 11:48 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Umm, that's precisely what happened: they changed every hard stun's range to 10m (those that previously had a 30m range, of course; Dirty Kick is still a melee stun).
Yep. And honestly, it took about 10 mintues to adjust play style to deal with it in PvE, on multiple class types that I play.

People get so rigid in their game play. It's an MMO, class skills change over time in MMOs. There are a number of factors that hav to be balanced all at the same time. There is no optimal solution really.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Apaolo's Avatar


Apaolo
09.27.2012 , 11:48 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkfalconheart View Post
and no one sees that most players do much more PVE than PVP.
Can you show me what metric you're using to deduce this?

Thanks.

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
09.27.2012 , 11:51 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by KamikazeKommando View Post
In all these quick examples, you were doing more DPS in 1.3 than you are now in 1.4. There's not much you can do to regain that lost DPS either, it's just a fact. Is it a lot of DPS lost? Sometimes hardly anything, other times it is much more noticeable. The other melee classes/specs hardly got hit this way, it's Vanguard Assault specifically that got changed in a pretty substantial way.

TL;DR: With 1.4 the Vanguard Assault play style has been dramatically changed and our DPS in both PVE and PVP has been reduced.
That's good. PT's were OP in the DPS department. The fact that you could do maybe 30% (maybe more?) dps from ranged during specific mechanics where you couldn't be in melee on the boss isn't fair when people like marauders who don't have 30m range abilities literally had to sit there and do nothing, thus doing 0% damage during those points. I'm all for PT's doing their 1.3 damage if Marauders are the kings of DPS when they can stay connected to the boss the whole fight. Sadly, as you pointed out in your numerous examples, they can't and even if they could, PT's are still beating them. That makes 0 sense.

Sabredance's Avatar


Sabredance
09.27.2012 , 11:53 AM | #57
BIOWARE stop messing with our PvP experience!!!!

Focus / Rage buff and Vigilance / Vengeance nerf.
Lack of insight into class performance or prioritization of PvE balance ?

Haggardbr's Avatar


Haggardbr
09.27.2012 , 11:55 AM | #58
Ok, you all convinced me... I need to stay in melee range.

Now I want my light saber / vibrosword to stay in that range.

Oh... I want the knife abilities that Operatives have as well.



There... now we can stay in melee range.
Sarah'kerrígan Jhom Kérrigan Jhota
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Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
09.27.2012 , 12:02 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Haggardbr View Post
Ok, you all convinced me... I need to stay in melee range.

Now I want my light saber / vibrosword to stay in that range.

Oh... I want the knife abilities that Operatives have as well.



There... now we can stay in melee range.
Yes, it seems silly that you're ranged attacks are like point-blank abilities when you're guns and such. But that's not the point. The point is your essentially a melee-based class. If you want to play ranged and do the absurd dps you're doing then I would like to know how you balance that with a pure melee class that is the Marauder?

Haggardbr's Avatar


Haggardbr
09.27.2012 , 12:10 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
Yes, it seems silly that you're ranged attacks are like point-blank abilities when you're guns and such. But that's not the point. The point is your essentially a melee-based class. If you want to play ranged and do the absurd dps you're doing then I would like to know how you balance that with a pure melee class that is the Marauder?
I would like to know that too...

But one thing I know is... as a trooper, if a marauder jump on me (even with gear that's worst than mine) with 3 or 4 hits i'll go down, because they have lots of defensive things and the leap as a gap closer.

Ok we have the harpoon, but that's one in around 45 sec ~ 1 min and it can jeopardize the attack that a fellow force user may be doing against another melee enemy because you wouldn't be getting close to the enemy (you >>> to >>> enemy) but instead you would be "taking" it away from your ally and then finishing his strike to the enemy.

To soften this problem with gap, I do agree that if those abilities keep nerfed in range we need Storm (Jet Charge) to close the gap.
Sarah'kerrígan Jhom Kérrigan Jhota
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