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BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

NRN_Hawk's Avatar


NRN_Hawk
09.27.2012 , 12:18 AM | #11
So... you can't play your class anymore because one or two abilities got 20m reduced range? LOL

Actually, noone that I know of and I know a lot of PVPers, asked for a range nerf. It doesn't even help me as a pvp tank, I'd need a bit better def / resi vs those one button skills.

And pls stop whining about PVP whiners. The whining is on both sides tbh.

I don't know why people want to seperate PVP and PVE in MMOs lol. It will only reduce the number of people you can play your game with.

Learn to play with changed abilities is all you can do. So far no change made me play worse in either PVP or PVE.

I just woke up, cheers.
500k Protection 3v4 Solo ranked

SWTOR 2.7 has more bugs than Wildstar beta and less features than the ages old World of Warcraft...

Hawk Pot5 -> Obscurity Ebon Hawk

KurganNazzir's Avatar


KurganNazzir
09.27.2012 , 12:41 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaya View Post
They should just make it so PvE and PvP are two seperate things, that way the game gets alot easier to balance as well and yes other games have done this and yes it does work very well.

You make it so each ability have 2 stats, one for PvE and one for PvP. For example take Electrocute, make it have the 10m range in PvP but when used in PvE it is still 30m range. How does the game know what stat to use? Simple PvP flag on or off?
I would love this and BioWare already has the ability in this game because they already do it with taunt skills, they work differently on PCs than they do on NPCs, so why can't/won't they do it for other skills? More work? Most likely but it might keep more players on both sides happy. I"m tired of skills I use often in PvE being changed because of the Resolve system in PvP.

Also, PvP will never be balanced the way people want because some classes are supposed to be better than others, the only ones that are supposed to be more closely balanced are the mirror classes. At least, that is what BioWare said once but maybe they changed their mind.

Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.

Shaya's Avatar


Shaya
09.27.2012 , 01:07 AM | #13
Made this thread in the suggestion box:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=537325

SleepyJoeFriday's Avatar


SleepyJoeFriday
09.27.2012 , 02:35 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by KurganNazzir View Post
Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.
Nice to see that many player "stun" abilities have a range nerf and yet npc range hasn't! That smacks of a change for PvP without thought of PvE.

Artemicon's Avatar


Artemicon
09.27.2012 , 05:06 AM | #15
This change effectively has made Powertechs a melee class. If you gonna stand in range for Thermal you might as well get in their for rocket punch etc.. So for fights like Zorn and toth in EC and the robot droid in Lost island, I have to be considered a melee to do Damage now. GG bioware GG

Zonixa's Avatar


Zonixa
09.27.2012 , 05:31 AM | #16
Quit blaming Bioware for everything that EA is/has done to this game. BW exists in name only and the blame is 100% on EA. EA should give the game back to the original BW company and quit the gaming industry completely... they SUCK!!!
Who Dares Wins

Esproc's Avatar


Esproc
09.27.2012 , 05:49 AM | #17
They nerfed the class out of many of the ACs over the months and always claimed it wasn't for PvP, yet after that one sentence it was all about this and that in PvP.

Make up you bloody minds!

I thought this was supposed to be a STORY intensive MMO and that means PvE.

Stop killing the PvE experience for the PvP whiners that couldn't win against an open doorway.
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson.
One Amendment to save them all ...

Lunesca's Avatar


Lunesca
09.27.2012 , 05:59 AM | #18
Agreed whole-heartedly with OP. Never played a powertech/vanguard myself, but I have a merc and sorc who have been affected by the stun/knockback changes. Good to see that mercs got an interrupt--we only needed that oh, I dunno, 9 months ago.

One thing that really bothers me is, last I checked, even with the new Dread Guard Relics out now, the pvp War Hero relics are still BiS for PvE (at least from dps/heal perspective, I don't play any tanks). I may not speak for the majority here, but I find playing just 1 warzone match totally insufferable. I don't pvp in this game, at all. It's simply not how I would choose to spend my time here. Why should 100% pve folks have to pvp to get the BiS pve gear? I feel like they could've just as easily redesigned the campaign & dread guard relics to have a static power bonus as they did with the pvp ones.

Haggardbr's Avatar


Haggardbr
09.27.2012 , 06:09 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by NRN_Hawk View Post
So... you can't play your class anymore because one or two abilities got 20m reduced range? LOL

I don't know why people want to seperate PVP and PVE in MMOs lol. It will only reduce the number of people you can play your game with.
It's not like "Oh one or two abilities had their range nerfed!"... they're the best abilities we have in the assault tree (except the cryo grenade) that can keep us alive longer because thay do a lot of damage.

And the thing is not to separate PvE from PvP as whole but it's to separate how the abilities work on both worlds... in PvE, range nerfing is a HUGE change that can (YES) jeopardize the gameplay for a lot of people as it is jeopardizing my performance now, since I was used to one thing for a loooooong time and now I have to change my learning curve drastically.

You may not believe it, but yes... it's true.

Quote: Originally Posted by KurganNazzir View Post
Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.
That's what I'm trying to say... this range nerfing is jeopardizing our PvE gameplay.

Yesterday I was running False Emperor with some guildies to do the daily HM flashpoint and when we encountered that boss that's on the middle of a bridge (a trandoshan with a sword) and started the fight, I had to be so close to him to use my abilities (unlike before where I could keep myself safe around 20 meters) that when he swung his blade twice next to me (even the tank trying to keep him away from us) he killed me instantly... our healer didn't even had the chance to heal me.

Quote: Originally Posted by SleepyJoeFriday View Post
Nice to see that many player "stun" abilities have a range nerf and yet npc range hasn't! That smacks of a change for PvP without thought of PvE.
This is my complaint, but people seem to be so stubborn that say I'm whining for nothing which is not true... we are having our gameplay in PvE jeopardized because of these changes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Artemicon View Post
This change effectively has made Powertechs a melee class. If you gonna stand in range for Thermal you might as well get in their for rocket punch etc.. So for fights like Zorn and toth in EC and the robot droid in Lost island, I have to be considered a melee to do Damage now. GG bioware GG
Someone here agrees with me... BHs and Troopers, in my honest opinion, aren't supposed to be in melee range... to me, they're the step before the really ranged classes (from 25 meters and more) right after the melee classes (4 ~ 15 meters).

With the old range, I could safely put myself around the 20 meters and do a lot more damage than I'm doing now.

If we were really supposed to be in melee range, we should be using swords and sabers and not rifles and pistols.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zonixa View Post
Quit blaming Bioware for everything that EA is/has done to this game. BW exists in name only and the blame is 100% on EA. EA should give the game back to the original BW company and quit the gaming industry completely... they SUCK!!!
We know that it's EA fault and stuff, but unfortunately the (what we call here in Brazil) "Iron Forehead" to solve things, change things and deal with customers is Bioware.

If we complain with EA they won't give a damn about what we say.

Quote: Originally Posted by Esproc View Post
They nerfed the class out of many of the ACs over the months and always claimed it wasn't for PvP, yet after that one sentence it was all about this and that in PvP.

Make up you bloody minds!

I thought this was supposed to be a STORY intensive MMO and that means PvE.

Stop killing the PvE experience for the PvP whiners that couldn't win against an open doorway.
Thanks God there are people in this game that are looking the whole mess this nerf is doing and agrees with me!

Quote: Originally Posted by Lunesca View Post
I may not speak for the majority here, but I find playing just 1 warzone match totally insufferable. I don't pvp in this game, at all. It's simply not how I would choose to spend my time here. Why should 100% pve folks have to pvp to get the BiS pve gear?
You can speak for myself in this sentence because this is right how I feel now...

I don't play PvP at all most of the times, only in the situations I said before:

1 - I want WZ comms to get a gun or a set of PvP clothes that I think that looks nice and I would like to use in PvE (Just like now I'm levelling a Gunslinger and there are two pieces of gear there that I want. I'll PvP to get comms for them and then never more again);

2 - When the PvP manager from my guild is setting a team for ranked or non-ranked WZs and they really need one more guy to complete it. THEN I would go but only when I'm sure they cannot find another person to fill the gap (since when I applied to this guild I am now, I left it well clear that I'm not fond to PvP - except the reasons I'm explaining now - and that I wouldn't participate in WZs).
Albrey (Commando) >< Coplan (Vanguard) >< Aldrey (Gunslinger) >< Jhom (Scoundrel) >< Kadniss (Guardian)
Flynn's (Sniper) >< Groen (Shadow)

CaptainObvious's Avatar


CaptainObvious
09.27.2012 , 07:07 AM | #20
I will say, I'm quite disappointed with the range reduction of electrocute. As my main is an assassin tank, I now have ZERO ranged abilities that can do damage. The single-target taunt is now the only thing I can effectively use on a boss in the 20-30m range (since you can't pull bosses).

That said, I think I'll live. We all will. Maybe some more than others as we all get used to it, and remember that these moves don't work like they used to.

As a decently balanced pvp/pve player... I usually do about 2/3 pve and 1/3 pvp, so I can see the arguments and their validity for both sides of this debate. I'm not gonna get into gross detail here, but I wanna bring some points to mind for people to think about.

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For pvp (I'll get to pve in a second), this whole argument that ranged players HAVE to only have ranged abilities overlooks the fact that we're trying to balance classes here. Even if we forget the fact that many say pyrotech pt's and assault vg's are far and away the most OP pvp class in the first place, (which is a BIG point, mind you), if ALL of a ranged player's attacks can be executed effectively from range, that puts the melee classes at a HUGE disadvantage. Why? Why do you think? Range gives a player more options. And, simply by staying farther back, you can concievably DESTROY a melee player without them ever being able to TOUCH you. Sure, melee players have closing moves, but they're useless if you're stun-locked and killed before you can use them.

All this means is when a melee player DOES get in range of you, you STILL have your stun than you can now use on them, as opposed to having used it earlier. And, well, these shortened, yet still powerful moves are now no longer on cooldown, so you can punish them for getting in so close.


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Okay, now, for pve. First of all, you can't expect me to believe your entire reportoire of dps attacks are now all of a sudden melee attacks because two moves have their range shortened. There's still, what, all the others? Many of which also got buffed and do more damage. Read the patch notes, a LOT of other moves were tweaked.

That said, I don't have a pyro pt, so maybe I'm wrong there. But I KNOW I'm not wrong about this, and I know just about every pve player can agree, whether they like the changes or not:

PVE (ESPECIALLY OPS) IS EASIER FOR RANGED THAN FOR MELEE. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

It's apparent that reducing the range of these few attacks are making ranged dps harder than it used to be. So, change your tactics and get better. ^_^ What's wrong with a little more challenge, especially when it now makes some of your other guild mates, (such as your marauders and deception assassins, OR your own melee alts) less likely to be passed over when looking for dps raid slots. Why? They're, comparatively, less of a hindrance now that ranged dps is a little harder.

Thoughts?