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SWTOR Is No Longer Supported By Most Sites

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
SWTOR Is No Longer Supported By Most Sites

Nukewild's Avatar


Nukewild
09.26.2012 , 06:34 PM | #11
I have to agree with Shava. I love SWTOR it is a great game and I gladly pay my subscription, but there are plenty of the players mentioned ( and you can read the QQ and whine threads elsewhere to see it for yourself) that she mentioned that influence all games including WOW. (reference to Pandas and Cat folk) I like most of the players in TOR even that crazy half naked player that runs in the wz's like a soccer streaker. The PvE, PvP and story line are better then any game out there and can be related to by most everyone even remotely familar with the Films,cartoons and the video games. It is a shame that some fan sites were abandoned or not being updated any longer. I am sure there will be a fan site that will come out of it for players by players.

Good luck and good hunting and most of all HAVE FUN.

Elkirin's Avatar


Elkirin
09.26.2012 , 07:06 PM | #12
While I agree that a segment of players failed the game. I am an asia - pacific server player, from opening and can no longer support the game either. Good luck, loved the game, moving on to populated worlds.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
09.26.2012 , 07:06 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by shava View Post
Actually upon thinking on it further, I had to respond to this more thoughtfully.

The sites you are talking about are, I think except for DarthHater (which is Curse, Inc. which is a multi-national dotcom, 19mil hits a month) all at best semi-pro and mostly all fan sites. Fan sites are ephemeral in many games.

SWTOR is in the news every day by the professional games press, for good or ill.

If the games press were an old-style journalism sort of thing, without comment streams, SWTOR's coverage would probably look much better than it does. However, comment streams make every AAA game out there look like crap, particularly the ones that don't have very crafty and clever social media folks who are both very adept and close to the fans. EA/Bioware seem to just have money at the corporate level, and do neither of those other things all that well.

But the current fashion in MMORPGs is that a vocal minority of gamers who love to guild up and raid -- let's call them the Piranhas -- dominate the social media metagame of the online world of MMOs. They spend all their free time that they are not gaming on Twitter, in comment streams, filing scathing reviews on Metacritic, you name it. Their hobby is to be gaming hipsters, essentially -- to see how snarkily and cuttingly they can shred a game to show off how sophisticated a gamer they are among their leet peers.

These are the armchair generals of MMOs.

So as a game emerges from pre-beta, these guys (and they are by vast majority male IRL) are scoping it like Fantasy Football dudes evaluating draft picks. They start talking about how it is or isn't like WOW, how it's prospects are to be F2P or why it will suck before the company publishes any terms at all. A cinematic trailer at E3 will erupt a crapstorm of vitriol. A change of devs will start doomsaying avalanches. A choice of distribution channels. From a bunch of idiots who really at root know zip about running a business. They mostly just like to listen to each other mouth off wise.

So when head start comes or beta or pre-beta, these guys descend like the school of piranha. They will get in as soon as possible. They will insist on top of the art graphics, performance, story, content, support -- but they will SKIP all of the two years of content that the devs put into the game.

Within two days, they have raced each other to level cap, where they will be ************ to the universe about how:
  1. It's too easy to get to level cap
  2. there weren't enough side quests even though they didn't stop to smell the npcs along the way
  3. the story (which they didn't read) sucked
  4. the end game is grindy and too much *and* not enough like WOW

And at this point, with all the variations on the theme (I'm sure you can come up with all the rest) they will call on the producers and the devs to have a summit with all the guild leaders to fix the doomed game, because only they can save the game. They will travel to Iceland or Austin or something, drink themselves silly, insult the female gender in any way they can in the majority, further confuse and ruin the game for crafters, roleplayers, people who like story, people who *do* spend time on content and so on, and then upon returning to the game and the forums, say no one listened to them....

And leave to destroy the next game.

I am tired of it. SWTOR did not fail the players. EA and a segment of players failed SWTOR. And that segment of players is failing the industry and will be making it impossible for a AAA game to get VC money within two years, I suspect. It's not a pretty picture in the industry right now.

/* retired game CEO and VP Marketing/Bizdev */
While I certainly agree with you on many of your points I don't entirely agree with you on everything.

Mostly this

Quote: Originally Posted by shava View Post
SWTOR did not fail the players. EA and a segment of players failed SWTOR. And that segment of players is failing the industry and will be making it impossible for a AAA game to get VC money within two years, I suspect. It's not a pretty picture in the industry right now.
As a gamer who has spent a few years playing games. Not trying to armchair this but from my own personal perspective. I'm seeing more of the same with a lot of games. AAA MMO is more of a marketing buzzword to get the kiddies drooling all over the new product. And very little variation in terms of game design, features and content is being produced.

Now, I understand that the industry would have to have certain standards and from a business perspective you want to take what your greatest competitor does and do that same thing yourself. The issue arises when your greatest competitor isn't exactly performing that well. When the target audience is starting to become bored and disinterested in what is being produced.

This is where innovation comes in. The idea isn't so much as to reinvent the wheel as it is to add some hot mags to it. Make it look cool and flashy and everyone wants that. More specifically, you need hooks.

SWTOR has one major Hook. Story. Now you could say, well it's got the Star Wars IP. That's a hook too right? It is, but unless you're a hardcore Star Wars fan that will pay for it because it has the name Star Wars. You're not likely going to hang around once you've consumed the main hook.

A bit like going fishing with a hook that disappears once the fish has had a few bites of the bait. You could say, well there is endgame and pvp. Sure they're also hooks but they rarely hold people's attention for long.

Pvpers tend to complain about pvp being unbalanced and flavor of the month classes before leaving for the next big pvp game (GW2) and PvErs tend to stop raiding once they've all got their top of the line gear.

In the end you've gone fishing in the hopes of catching a lot of fish. But sadly most of the fish ate the bait and got away. The solution, better hooks and more of them.

Buddhaman's Avatar


Buddhaman
09.26.2012 , 07:28 PM | #14
I barely bother responding to most threads, because honestly I just do not believe there is anything worthwhile to add to the conversation. But Shava, I must say that was the most prophetic and eye opening post I have ever read. You are 100% correct and the majority of these so called "gamer communities" sicken me. Although they cannot truly be called a community as members of a community work to help one another for a greater purpose. However, I only wish others would realize how right you are before it is too late for many a great game. This one is certainly included and I will play it until one way or the other it is killed; by the publishers, the developers, the media, or the fans. Thank you for ensuring me there is some shred of intelligence left.

Malles's Avatar


Malles
09.26.2012 , 07:40 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by shava View Post
Actually upon thinking on it further, I had to respond to this more thoughtfully.

The sites you are talking about are, I think except for DarthHater (which is Curse, Inc. which is a multi-national dotcom, 19mil hits a month) all at best semi-pro and mostly all fan sites. Fan sites are ephemeral in many games.

SWTOR is in the news every day by the professional games press, for good or ill.

If the games press were an old-style journalism sort of thing, without comment streams, SWTOR's coverage would probably look much better than it does. However, comment streams make every AAA game out there look like crap, particularly the ones that don't have very crafty and clever social media folks who are both very adept and close to the fans. EA/Bioware seem to just have money at the corporate level, and do neither of those other things all that well.

But the current fashion in MMORPGs is that a vocal minority of gamers who love to guild up and raid -- let's call them the Piranhas -- dominate the social media metagame of the online world of MMOs. They spend all their free time that they are not gaming on Twitter, in comment streams, filing scathing reviews on Metacritic, you name it. Their hobby is to be gaming hipsters, essentially -- to see how snarkily and cuttingly they can shred a game to show off how sophisticated a gamer they are among their leet peers.

These are the armchair generals of MMOs.

So as a game emerges from pre-beta, these guys (and they are by vast majority male IRL) are scoping it like Fantasy Football dudes evaluating draft picks. They start talking about how it is or isn't like WOW, how it's prospects are to be F2P or why it will suck before the company publishes any terms at all. A cinematic trailer at E3 will erupt a crapstorm of vitriol. A change of devs will start doomsaying avalanches. A choice of distribution channels. From a bunch of idiots who really at root know zip about running a business. They mostly just like to listen to each other mouth off wise.

So when head start comes or beta or pre-beta, these guys descend like the school of piranha. They will get in as soon as possible. They will insist on top of the art graphics, performance, story, content, support -- but they will SKIP all of the two years of content that the devs put into the game.

Within two days, they have raced each other to level cap, where they will be ************ to the universe about how:
  1. It's too easy to get to level cap
  2. there weren't enough side quests even though they didn't stop to smell the npcs along the way
  3. the story (which they didn't read) sucked
  4. the end game is grindy and too much *and* not enough like WOW

And at this point, with all the variations on the theme (I'm sure you can come up with all the rest) they will call on the producers and the devs to have a summit with all the guild leaders to fix the doomed game, because only they can save the game. They will travel to Iceland or Austin or something, drink themselves silly, insult the female gender in any way they can in the majority, further confuse and ruin the game for crafters, roleplayers, people who like story, people who *do* spend time on content and so on, and then upon returning to the game and the forums, say no one listened to them....

And leave to destroy the next game.

I am tired of it. SWTOR did not fail the players. EA and a segment of players failed SWTOR. And that segment of players is failing the industry and will be making it impossible for a AAA game to get VC money within two years, I suspect. It's not a pretty picture in the industry right now.

/* retired game CEO and VP Marketing/Bizdev */
The single biggest problem with this game is that EA/BW just doesn't think about what they're doing. They're so wrapped up in making something new they completely skip over things that STILL need fixing and push in new content that's nothing to brag about anyway.

For example, the Chevin event. "Travel to the far reaches of the galaxy!" only got us to Nar Shaddaa and our capital worlds. They were so hung up on making sure it was accessible to all players no one stopped and thought, "Well, two planets is kinds of skimpy, maybe we should throw in Ord Mantell and Hutta as well? Some stuff around the Fleet?" And the only worthwhile rewards were lowbie gear for three Advanced Classes. Mounts and pets are just vanity fluff for collectors. All for a scavenger hunt that was so easy people had walkthroughs for it online by the end of the day.

I'm a SWTOR fanboy and have been for almost two years now. It's a Star Wars MMO that starts where KOTOR left off. What's not to love about that? But the designers are the ones destroying this game. The "armchair MMO generals" need fuel to get going and as much as I hate to admit it, SWTOR keeps giving it to them. I'm not talking endgame content, I'm not talking story, I'm not even talking PvP.

WoW is their biggest competitor right now. Hate it all you want, it's the truth. WoW had all the problems SWTOR did when it was first released and had most of them fixed within six months. Their first expansion brought two new races, four new zones on Azeroth, a completely different world with it's own zones, ten extra levels of content, a new Profession, reintroduced four major lore characters, and the only major problem with it was that the endgame gear made you look like orange sherbert ice cream. For content difficulty pre-release, C'thun was nearly impossible to beat because when he was first released the gear you needed to beat him did not exist. Versus endgame content on SWTOR people had completed within the month of release and their upcoming "expansion" consisting of five levels, one new race, a new companion based off an existing character, and one new planet for a story spreading across an entire galaxy.

Now, WoW as all sorts of features, ranging between major ones (dual-talent specializations, true open-world PvP) to minor ones (Auction House doesn't make you input the same price over and over again when your selling multiple stacks of an item, you can change character features without rerolling the character, and there are multiple zone stories to level through like the Barrens, Silverpine Forest, and the Ghostlands), all of which people are seeing and comparing to SWTOR. And SWTOR doesn't want to copy WoW because they want to be the new thing so badly they're not bothering to check and see if they're the BETTER thing.

The "SWTOR is new!" argument has been played out. And I should know, I used to use that one a lot. And truthfully, I don't think this game will ever be as great as it has the potential to be, because EA just sees it as another little pet project.
I used simple happy language words to help you understand.

Why yes, I have been a proud SWTOR Community member since August 2011. Why, wanna fight about it?

Mithros's Avatar


Mithros
09.26.2012 , 08:57 PM | #16
Pretty much agree with Shava.

It's like MTV... You can talk about how some videos were all about the era or whatever, but how many times did they play 'Ice, Ice, Baby' back in the day, selling advertising and making money hand over fist, only to later jump on the 'worst video of all time' wagon when they thought that that would make them look cooler?

These gamers are the same.

Whatever they choose to play is the greatest game ever, but when they decide to move on (and they are a fickle bunch... They move on a lot), whatever they used to play somehow transforms into the worst thing ever.

It's not 'cool' enough to simply like what you like, play it, and be happy.
It's only 'cool' when you badmouth other games and the people that play them, and goodness knows that there are a bunch of people that feel inadequate unless they think that they have made themselves look 'cool' to total strangers that probably wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire if they met them in the real world.

After all, that wouldn't be 'cool'.
Beta Squadron 157

As long as we remember, it's never really gone.

GalacticKegger's Avatar


GalacticKegger
09.26.2012 , 09:00 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
Pretty much agree with Shava.

It's like MTV... You can talk about how some videos were all about the era or whatever, but how many times did they play 'Ice, Ice, Baby' back in the day, selling advertising and making money hand over fist, only to later jump on the 'worst video of all time' wagon when they thought that that would make them look cooler?

These gamers are the same.

Whatever they choose to play is the greatest game ever, but when they decide to move on (and they are a fickle bunch... They move on a lot), whatever they used to play somehow transforms into the worst thing ever.

It's not 'cool' enough to simply like what you like, play it, and be happy.
It's only 'cool' when you badmouth other games and the people that play them, and goodness knows that there are a bunch of people that feel inadequate unless they think that they have made themselves look 'cool' to total strangers that probably wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire if they met them in the real world.

After all, that wouldn't be 'cool'.
What's even funnier is after they bash their previous games, they come to a new game and then bash that for not being like the one they were already bashing. Pythonesque petulance.
"I bled protecting The People's right to free speech; thus I reserve the right to make them bleed for abusing it."
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ~ Edmund Burke‎
"There is no instance of a country having benefitted from a prolonged war." ~ Sun Tsu

SirUrza's Avatar


SirUrza
09.26.2012 , 09:29 PM | #18
Even Darth Hater's database is mostly empty of comments. What it comes down to is SWTOR doesn't support mods, thus, there's nothing in game aggregating data to the site. So nodes, drops, etc. data doesn't get sent to the site. The site just knows the item is in the game's code, but it doesn't know if the item actually shows up in game.

There are lots of database sites.. for every MMO. They all fail because there's no support for them.
ị█ị██████ịịΘịị█ị{▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀)

LibertySol's Avatar


LibertySol
09.26.2012 , 09:38 PM | #19
If you honestly think SWTOR didn't fail it's community I really don't know what to say to that. That's fine. There will always be die hard fans who will vehemently defend their chosen product and I understand that. I also understand there are a lot of people who tear through a games endgame and then claim it's bad. Those people suck no question about it.

But SWTOR failed the playerbase. It's the biggest failure in gaming history (maybe entertainment history). SWTOR just doesn't have enough content. It is extremely similar to WoW and the hot key based MMOs before it. It's incredibly static and doesn't feel alive at all. EA/BioWare/I don't care whoever is in charge absolutely sucks at communicating with their fanbase. The game was released before it was ready. They push updates incredibly slowly. The Hero Engine is absolutely terrible, incredibly prone to bugs, and can't handle large numbers of people (which for an MMO is sort of important). Even the story when compared to other single player games (some in BioWare's own catalogue!) like Grand Theft Auto, Mass Effect, and KOTOR isn't that great.

The worst part is the game is fun. If it launched with patch 1.2, kept up consistent updates, didn't spend so much on VO, and actually communicated with their fans, and didn't use the hero engine it'd be in a lot better shape.

If you think SWTOR didn't fail the playerbase I think you are blind to it's problems. None of the things I just brought have to do with rabid fanboys tearing the game down. No one likes rabid fanboys but to blame them for the condition SWTOR is is absolutely ridiculous and is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who's quit this game or plans to quit this game.

LibertySol's Avatar


LibertySol
09.26.2012 , 09:41 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by LibertySol View Post
If you honestly think SWTOR didn't fail it's community I really don't know what to say to that. That's fine. There will always be die hard fans who will vehemently defend their chosen product and I understand that. I also understand there are a lot of people who tear through a games endgame and then claim it's bad. Those people suck no question about it.

But SWTOR failed the playerbase. It's the biggest failure in gaming history (maybe entertainment history). SWTOR just doesn't have enough content. It is extremely similar to WoW and the hot key based MMOs before it. It's incredibly static and doesn't feel alive at all. EA/BioWare/I don't care whoever is in charge absolutely sucks at communicating with their fanbase. The game was released before it was ready. They push updates incredibly slowly. The Hero Engine is absolutely terrible, incredibly prone to bugs, and can't handle large numbers of people (which for an MMO is sort of important). Even the story when compared to other single player games (some in BioWare's own catalogue!) like Grand Theft Auto, Mass Effect, and KOTOR isn't that great.

The worst part is the game is fun. If it launched with patch 1.2, kept up consistent updates, didn't spend so much on VO, and actually communicated with their fans, and didn't use the hero engine it'd be in a lot better shape.

If you think SWTOR didn't fail the playerbase I think you are blind to it's problems. None of the things I just brought have to do with rabid fanboys tearing the game down. No one likes rabid fanboys but to blame them for the condition SWTOR is is absolutely ridiculous and is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who's quit this game or plans to quit this game.
Sigh what a waste.