Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kun vs Vader vs Bane vs Revan.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kun vs Vader vs Bane vs Revan.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.25.2012 , 08:58 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post
Ah-hah-hah, ahhh-No. Anakin had the potential to be 2x stronger than Sidious. That's it. Becoming a Cyborg dropped him to 80% of Darth Sidious, which is an utterly meaningless statement. If they are trying to use Sid as a benchmark for Sith then that would mean others were as powerful if not moreso than him. This is, of course, not true because there is no powerscaling for Star Wars. Thus the "80% Sid" bit is completely meaningless and always has been. And it doesn't make him automatically better than everyone else as we've seen him lose to Starkiller several times and have problems fighting a clone of Darth Maul and Celeste Morne, who had been in hibernation for almost four millennium.



As already said by GarfieldJL, that was Game Mechanics. Starkiller doesn't use the towers in the Novel. I know, I read the damn thing in less than week. When SK escaped Kamino, he had shocked Vader and blew out a wall to reach a landing pad. SK returned there a week later and faced Vader again, who'd improved the insulation in his suit, and still SK stunned him with Force Lightning that penetrated the insulation. This was before Juno had taken SK's fallen lightsaber and created a rent in Vader's armor that SK then shot his lightning into to cripple Vader.



No. Had Starkiller continued to rip into him with Force Lightning, Vader would've died. But since Vader is protected by Plot Continuity, he clearly couldn't be allowed to die. Otherwise, Starkiller would've murdered him, or Kota would've.



Not especially, no. Anyone who knows how to use their speed effectively can take down those stronger than themselves. A shot to the throat, the joints and other vulnerable points on the body could put Vader on the ground regardless of the strength granted by his prosthetics.



Starkiller blew out a durasteel wall with just TK. I don't see the difference. The Consular in SWTOR exploded a blast door with several telekinetic blasts. And in KoToR Revan had already been said to unleash storms of lightning that took out scores of "The One's" Rakatan Warriors. Despite Durasteel's claim of resilience and strength, in SW it has been shown to be far too easy to cut through and break.



All I can get from this is "hate revan hate revan hate revan hate revan".

Revan has the highest chance of winning here. Exar Kun lost his war inside a few years. Revan won the Mando Wars, left, came back and started the Jedi Civil war and was winning, survived betrayal by Malak, regained his Force Powers a year later, and then beat every who's ever faced him as well as defeating Malak in the Star Forge while Malak was being amplified by the Star Forge and the dozen Jedi he'd captured and used to rejuvinate himself with. The only one who had ever actually defeated Revan was the Sith Emperor, Darth Vitiate, who may very well be one of the most powerful Dark Side users in the SWU.



That's not technically true. You could still cut his head off as that and his wrists were the only unprotected parts of his body. However that is assuming that this is Bane with the Orbalisk armor in play, and not Bane at his peak which is after losing it, when he acquired more Sith Knowledge and Force techniques. He may have lost his armor, but he learned to fight more efficiently because he'd become more vulnerable to attack. That forced him to pefect his defenses against the Force, melee combat and blasters.
How can it be utterly meaningless when Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever? That's G-Canon. No one other than Luke Skywalker can defeat him. He is the epitome of the Dark Side, the culmination of Bane's Rule of Two. Vader being 80% of his power tells us that he is most likely the second- third- or fourth most powerful Sith. Vader has proven to be incredibly powerful in multiple situations. Defeating the PT Order's Battlemaster Cin Drallig shows that he is one of the most skilled duelists of all time.

As I said, I didn't care to read the novel because I didn't really care for the game. And I can't find the novel anywhere.

Plot continuity... not really. Well I shouldn't say that. because TFU series is between 3 and 4 obviously plot continuity is a factor. But Vader was never really committed to the battle in either game. And as Luke said post-ROTJ, had Vader tried to kill Luke he would have. Vader could have destroyed Starkiller at any time.

True, but Vader has never allowed that. He moves in and brings everything to bear on his opponents early.

Durasteel has only really been cut-through by lightsabers. That is to my knowledge of course.

I have never said that I hate Revan. I actually like his character, but I am sticking to what is and is not canon. And cnonically, Vader destroys Revan. The only one in this match-up that can stand toe-to-toe with him is Kun. Revan won the Mandalorian wars by using Mandalorian tactics and using the Jedi numbers in combination with Republic troops to overwhelm them. You know what? I'm not getting into this argument. I've made Revan's actions clear in past threads and do not intend to do so a second time.

One last thing. All of Vitiates power comes from Rituals. Sidious destroys him in the power department. The first Sith hail Sidious has the greatest and call Vitiate an abomination.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
09.25.2012 , 10:36 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You really think Boba Fett could fight Darth Vader to a draw? okay then. If Vader had actually wanted to kill Fett, he would have done so, easily.
Actually, Darth Vader nearly ended up having his head blow off by Boba Fett. Darth Vader was out to kill Fett at the time, but Fett outmaneuvered Vader and had the chance of shooting Vader in the head, but it would have called all of the Empire down on Fett's head so Fett didn't take the shot.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I've asked myself that question many times, but I know the answer. The Death Star created fear. That was its main purpose- to put fear into those who would resist him. After the Empire fell and Sidious was reborn, he showed the full power of the Dark Side. He used his mastery of Force Lightning to create Force Storms in space.
Unlikely, considering if he really had that kind of power at his disposal people would fear him to the point he wouldn't need a fleet, let alone a Death Star. Fact of the matter is I don't think Palpatine could have sustained the attack, or it would have killed him. That is probably why he didn't use the Force to that level of scale. As it is with his clone bodies, they deteriorated rapidly even before they were sabotaged, it was probably because of all that dark energy he was wielding, it ate away at the bodies in proportion to his force usage. The darkside appears to be extremely damaging to one's own body.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
never bothered to read the novel because I found the game to be a bit lackluster.
If the game had been more like the book, it would have been way cooler than it was. Heck there was even a whole planet that was left out of the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
But compared to Vader, Revan loses badly.
If we are talking in simple raw potential, that is true. However there is more to the fight than simple raw potential, Revan has some advantages over Vader. For starters he's quicker than Vader, furthermore he's a tactical genius (something Vader was not). Vader is uniquely vulnerable to a certain force power, all Revan needs is one opening. Furthermore, while still suffering from remnents of amnesia he took apart Malak's forces, turned Bastilla back to the light, totally more of Malak's forces, then single handedly took down Malak while Malak was augmented by the star forge. Revan still didn't have his full knowledge of the force back even at that point.

In raw potential, Vader may be stronger, but it is fairly safe to say that could give some pretty stiff competition against Vader, and despite being at a disadvantage could still win.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Patience can only get him so far. Once it comes down to him versus Vader or Kun, he will lose. Vader has killed some of the greatest of Jedi ever. And Kun almost destroyed the NJO post-humously. Revan could never do that.
Exar Kun was an angry ghost that used genocide to steal away the lifeforce of his subjects to become that ghost. While he took down Skywalker, he did it using the force potential of a relatively untrained Kyp Durron, and he still couldn't get the boy to kill Skywalker. He spent the next few weeks trying to finish the job and failed miserably each time.

He ultimately ended up getting outsmarted by Corran Horn, then destroyed by a bunch of trainees and two children whom were barely out of diapers.

In all honesty, I think Exar Kun would be the first to die, I don't care how powerful he thinks he is, if he got defeated by a pair of toddlers and a bunch of trainees, he's not exactly the most intelligent sith if you know what I mean.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
09.25.2012 , 10:38 PM | #63
Darth Baras comes in, sits on all of them, and wins by default.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

DarthAeonis's Avatar


DarthAeonis
09.25.2012 , 11:38 PM | #64
ive always been a Revan fan but even if i werent i'd say he'd win hands down. he's always been regarded as one possibly the most powerful person of his day and possibly ever to exist (atleast from when that qoute was mentioned) but his skills were just superior too. bane would be nothing without revan's guidance and knowledge of the force is obviously one of revan's strong points. revan defeated mandalore so he def has the physical skill. it has been said often he was a master at force lightning (which is vader's biggest weakness) and his mastery of dual wielding or all forms for that matter. he has complete balance of the force mastering light and dark so who knows how strong he could truly get. kun is probly the only suitable match for him but even then revan to me has the clear advantage. plus revan's feats are huge, he gets things done. so for me its revan>kun>bane/vader (bane and vader are pretty equal to me)
"Evil is an illusion, there is only victory."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.26.2012 , 10:45 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Actually, Darth Vader nearly ended up having his head blow off by Boba Fett. Darth Vader was out to kill Fett at the time, but Fett outmaneuvered Vader and had the chance of shooting Vader in the head, but it would have called all of the Empire down on Fett's head so Fett didn't take the shot.



Unlikely, considering if he really had that kind of power at his disposal people would fear him to the point he wouldn't need a fleet, let alone a Death Star. Fact of the matter is I don't think Palpatine could have sustained the attack, or it would have killed him. That is probably why he didn't use the Force to that level of scale. As it is with his clone bodies, they deteriorated rapidly even before they were sabotaged, it was probably because of all that dark energy he was wielding, it ate away at the bodies in proportion to his force usage. The darkside appears to be extremely damaging to one's own body.



If the game had been more like the book, it would have been way cooler than it was. Heck there was even a whole planet that was left out of the game.



If we are talking in simple raw potential, that is true. However there is more to the fight than simple raw potential, Revan has some advantages over Vader. For starters he's quicker than Vader, furthermore he's a tactical genius (something Vader was not). Vader is uniquely vulnerable to a certain force power, all Revan needs is one opening. Furthermore, while still suffering from remnents of amnesia he took apart Malak's forces, turned Bastilla back to the light, totally more of Malak's forces, then single handedly took down Malak while Malak was augmented by the star forge. Revan still didn't have his full knowledge of the force back even at that point.

In raw potential, Vader may be stronger, but it is fairly safe to say that could give some pretty stiff competition against Vader, and despite being at a disadvantage could still win.



Exar Kun was an angry ghost that used genocide to steal away the lifeforce of his subjects to become that ghost. While he took down Skywalker, he did it using the force potential of a relatively untrained Kyp Durron, and he still couldn't get the boy to kill Skywalker. He spent the next few weeks trying to finish the job and failed miserably each time.

He ultimately ended up getting outsmarted by Corran Horn, then destroyed by a bunch of trainees and two children whom were barely out of diapers.

In all honesty, I think Exar Kun would be the first to die, I don't care how powerful he thinks he is, if he got defeated by a pair of toddlers and a bunch of trainees, he's not exactly the most intelligent sith if you know what I mean.
Granted, but I don't like that fight because Vader could so easily kill Fett. If a blind man could do it, why not Vader?

Reborn Sidious did that. Just visit Sidious' powers on the Wookieepedia and you'll see what he can and cannot do.

I know. The game had some good action in it, but the story was a bit bland.

I give Revan credit where credit is due. So yes, he pulled off impressive feats. But Vader could beat Revan in a one v one. They're both some of the greatest of their time, but Vader has done more impressive things in duels. He defeated Cin Drallig, arguably one of the Jedi Order's greatest Battlemasters. He defeated him while simultaneously fighting several other Jedi. He also almost defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi, the master of Soresu.

The NJO used the Wall of Light power that destroyed Kun's spirit. It took the full power of the NJO as well as Luke Skywalker to defeat him. The same Luke Skywalker that defeated Darth Sidious in a Lightsaber duel. But I do agree that Kun wasn't the smartest of Sith. There is a good chance of him getting beat early.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.26.2012 , 10:46 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Darth Baras comes in, sits on all of them, and wins by default.
Poor Vader's gonna have an even harder time breathing after that.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.26.2012 , 10:52 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthAeonis View Post
ive always been a Revan fan but even if i werent i'd say he'd win hands down. he's always been regarded as one possibly the most powerful person of his day and possibly ever to exist (atleast from when that qoute was mentioned) but his skills were just superior too. bane would be nothing without revan's guidance and knowledge of the force is obviously one of revan's strong points. revan defeated mandalore so he def has the physical skill. it has been said often he was a master at force lightning (which is vader's biggest weakness) and his mastery of dual wielding or all forms for that matter. he has complete balance of the force mastering light and dark so who knows how strong he could truly get. kun is probly the only suitable match for him but even then revan to me has the clear advantage. plus revan's feats are huge, he gets things done. so for me its revan>kun>bane/vader (bane and vader are pretty equal to me)
Hands down? I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible. Please get all of the facts before posting something like that.

Revan didn't master anything. He was proficient in many abilities, but he never mastered anything.

Mastered all of the Lightsaber forms? Nope. Not even close.

Master of Force Lightning? That would be Sidious. Revan's lightning is nothing.

Mastered Light and Dark!? You're joking right? Revan was a follower of the Light Side. But he could master it. Revan as a Sith never mastered the Dark Side. Reborn Revan stuck to the Light Side but fell to the Dark Side in times of great stress.

Why don't you list Revan's feats and we'll see just how great Revan is. Not trying to be mean, but you don't have all of the facts.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
09.26.2012 , 11:28 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Actually, Darth Vader nearly ended up having his head blow off by Boba Fett. Darth Vader was out to kill Fett at the time, but Fett outmaneuvered Vader and had the chance of shooting Vader in the head, but it would have called all of the Empire down on Fett's head so Fett didn't take the shot.
Sorry but that fight was PIS

Plot Induced Stupidity

Meaning no matter what happened, Boba was gonna have to win/escape being that the fight took place before ESB/ROTJ so he had to have lived. If Boba didn't appear in ESB or rather he didn't appear in ROTJ, then Boba would have just been crushed. In fact, the reason Boba survived that fight was because of a box when again that doesn't make any sense because why wouldn't Vader just crush Boba and take the box anyway? So again...while that fight is canon(which it shouldn't be) its complete PIS in the favor for Boba.

Boba is like Batman, they both have PIS moments. Difference is, with Batman's PIS its usually not canon within the comics, with Boba that isn't the case when some of those PIS moments need to be N-canon. In an actual fight

Vader > Boba, every time.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

DarthAeonis's Avatar


DarthAeonis
09.26.2012 , 11:44 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Hands down? I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible. Please get all of the facts before posting something like that.

Revan didn't master anything. He was proficient in many abilities, but he never mastered anything.

Mastered all of the Lightsaber forms? Nope. Not even close.

Master of Force Lightning? That would be Sidious. Revan's lightning is nothing.

Mastered Light and Dark!? You're joking right? Revan was a follower of the Light Side. But he could master it. Revan as a Sith never mastered the Dark Side. Reborn Revan stuck to the Light Side but fell to the Dark Side in times of great stress.

Why don't you list Revan's feats and we'll see just how great Revan is. Not trying to be mean, but you don't have all of the facts.
first of all i kno my facts. thanks very much.

revan first of all was a master of the force and any person he met would undoubtedly agree to that.
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force."
―Kreia
he has bestest numerous ppl in lightsaber combat and many unarmed while still under amnesia

Mandalore the Ultimate, Yusanis, Calo Nord, Darth Bandon, Darth Malak,[7 and Darth Nyriss and
He defeated the top five duelists, Deadeye Duncan, Gerlon Two-Fingers, Marl, Ice, and Twitch, to become the Taris dueling champion. his precognition skills allows him to easily forsee and outmaneuver his oppponents.

"Revan is among the few individuals in galactic history, who had significant exposure to both the light and dark sides of the Force, and he proved to be highly skilled in the use of both of these aspects of the Force. he was able to develop a perfect understanding of the concept of Unifying Force. During Revan's tenure as a Jedi Master, his command of the Force had reached to such a degree that he could channel both the light and dark sides of the Force simultaneously to perform unique feats"
he could use the force to near instant regenerate his wounds, immunize himself to drugs and disease.
"Revan was proficient in the application of Force lightning, and also in the use of defensive techniques to counter it. Revan could use his bare hands to absorb and deflect very powerful Force lightning attacks. Very few Force-users in the galactic history have demonstrated this ability"
master tactician, expert mechanic (built hk-47), skilled pilot, hell he can do anything, KOR is probly the best example of all his feats and the new novels give4 him even more credit. hell i could probly qoute all of wookiepedia but u can just look for urself. but here's one final qoute just for you.
"…Your potential is unlimited…"
―Zhar Lestin
"Evil is an illusion, there is only victory."

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
09.26.2012 , 11:56 AM | #70
So you know Darth, Kreia is a lair and deceiver so you can't really trust anything that she says. More to the point, even if that quote was true I don't think your suppose to take it literally it would be a metaphor if anything else.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.