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Let Them Die


uniz's Avatar


uniz
09.22.2012 , 06:44 PM | #11
talk to them first and after the second time let them die.

death is a wonderful teacher. that is why mmos that are rather difficult to level up in have far smaller a population at end game of such players. it weeds out the stupid and unteachable.

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
09.25.2012 , 06:51 PM | #12
Letting them die is certainly a viable option, with prior communication of course. To add to the previous justification of it: in the way that practicing a poor technique when learning something leads to the habit of always using the poor technique, a naive dps mindset countered by your ability to regain threat on all mobs will only reinforce this "bad" behavior. I have had many experiences with guild members that were often carried through operations by a subset of the raid group that had higher gear; however, the gear of the group overall was much higher than required. Still, we encountered difficulty because of dps not doing their best to avoid damage and take threat, but the overability of the better geared members accounted for that. When it came to operations where gear could no longer carry people through, we were often stuck because people had not learned to play appropriately.

While Flashpoints are certainly easier than operations, dps must understand appropriate damage/threat concepts starting at that earlier stage if they expect to excel at operations later. So, letting them die is a good way to teach them a lesson as it only causes a loss to them, whereas in in operation everybody wipes. Just be sure to let them know what they are doing wrong and why before you pull their plug.

POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
09.26.2012 , 02:32 AM | #13
I do this as an encouragement for the rest of the group to not to stand in front of every pull for 1 minute and wait for someone else to do something (tank stays there, dps stays there not doing anything)... so I just use my droid cc or whatever to kick-off the fight. I can heal through most of these anyway.

DeDaL_KIRA's Avatar


DeDaL_KIRA
09.26.2012 , 02:56 AM | #14
I dunno...
It certainly is frustrating, but what is more frustrating is that people keep on using AoE or actually directly hitting CC'd targets. Seriously, I'm happy I have a "pull out group member from danger" ability, because if I didn't - wipes would occur way more often.

Just last night I had "fun" with a group, where tank jumped into danger without as much as a word, but that wasn't what iffed me the wrong way. Allright, he jumped in there - I knew he had a load of health and armor and he wouldn't just die like a rabid dog. Thus I shield the tank, to give me some time before needing to heal him, and look for a standalone strong target to CC. So I levitate the target, and get back to healing the tank. And what do I see about five seconds after the mark was CC'd? I see the freakin' sniper charging his "ambush" ability on the CC'd target! WHY!?

Why the heck tanks can recognise a target getting controlled in the middle of the battle, but most dps can't? Don't you look where you're shooting?

A group fights a stack of mobs and accidentally pulls another stack. Happens, right? So two hardest mobs from the new pack get controlled immediately, so that we would have less to worry about. And what comes next? RIGHT, the mercenary hits the whole pack with an AoE rocket barrage thingy. Yay, now we have more golden mobs to kill you, dear merc!

If I put a mark on target and say I'll CC it - it means I'll keep re-CC'ing it as long as needed to finish off other targets. Don't just assume that if control ran out you can start spamming that target. If the other targets are still alive - the marked one will be recontrolled asap.

Whew. Some people...

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
09.26.2012 , 03:29 AM | #15
Most dps role people are just facerolling, that's why. Most of the time they don't even look at what they are shooting it's just click buttons + tab + click buttons some more, tab
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Mordeguy's Avatar


Mordeguy
09.26.2012 , 04:47 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by POPsi View Post
I do this as an encouragement for the rest of the group to not to stand in front of every pull for 1 minute and wait for someone else to do something (tank stays there, dps stays there not doing anything)... so I just use my droid cc or whatever to kick-off the fight. I can heal through most of these anyway.
Yes, I know this issue from both sides. I tank a lot, more than anything else in this game. I always go at a very fast pace and am often pulling the next group by the time my dps is about to finish one (I always run with healers that know I'm going to do this, I will slow down if needed for pugs.).

Sometimes I still get dps though that seem to want to lead, or that focus the completely wrong mob (not really a problem in FPs but can be an issue in operations). It's annoying but whatever, as long as they aren't dying and the healer isn't complaining I just do my best to keep the mobs controlled.

Now, when I'm dpsing, I'm sorry but it is terrible to get one of those tanks that stops to survey each pull for a decade. It literally makes a flashpoint take 2-3 times longer than it should. So I will get a bit impatient when that happens and start pulling, to force the progress.

Honestly, I just don't pug a lot anymore.

Nilatis's Avatar


Nilatis
09.26.2012 , 06:07 AM | #17
I leave the group. Simple as that. I just can't stand the babysitting, arguing and wiping. So I take a short break, and when I come back I walk straight past the queue while they have to wait in line.
“Best with the best—the sender, not the sent; or all at once: more glory will be won.” - Milton

POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
09.26.2012 , 06:10 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordeguy View Post
Yes, I know this issue from both sides. I tank a lot, more than anything else in this game. I always go at a very fast pace and am often pulling the next group by the time my dps is about to finish one (I always run with healers that know I'm going to do this, I will slow down if needed for pugs.).

Sometimes I still get dps though that seem to want to lead, or that focus the completely wrong mob (not really a problem in FPs but can be an issue in operations). It's annoying but whatever, as long as they aren't dying and the healer isn't complaining I just do my best to keep the mobs controlled.

Now, when I'm dpsing, I'm sorry but it is terrible to get one of those tanks that stops to survey each pull for a decade. It literally makes a flashpoint take 2-3 times longer than it should. So I will get a bit impatient when that happens and start pulling, to force the progress.

Honestly, I just don't pug a lot anymore.
Yeah, it happens that tanks are inexperienced, hell, I was once inexperienced, but it's simply irritating when they stay there and stare at the pack... so I initiate and most of the times it's sufficient for the tank to move. The other of this is when people as so hasty/don't know correct shortcuts that they pull half of the mobs from the FP in our neck.

Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
09.26.2012 , 06:21 AM | #19
Couldn't help but think of Leroy.

I'll let them know what's going on, and if it continues, take the necessary action. DPS is a very easy class to fill.
The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination - Pirana

POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
09.26.2012 , 07:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
Couldn't help but think of Leroy.

I'll let them know what's going on, and if it continues, take the necessary action. DPS is a very easy class to fill.
that's an appropriate representation for the subject of this thread