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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.22.2012 , 04:16 PM | #1591
Quote: Originally Posted by Eleuril View Post
Eh? I mean, sure, no-one wants all the SGRA companions to be a load of walking gay stereotypes, but there is such a thing as going too far the other way.
If they must have a character or two who do behave like the stereotypes (for any sexuality) I would personally like them to also add a greater depth of character than just 'ooh! isn't he fabulous? shOOooes!' and - also personally - I would prefer it not to be a significant number of companions who adhere to these stereotypes. Yes, there are genuinely real people who do act like these stereotypes but I find it hard to believe that that is the entirety of their personality.

I will freely admit that I do not have any gay friends, but then I do not really have any male friends, female friends or friends in general. That is likely through a lack of trying, but I also don't consider friendship to be something one can easily equate to Pokemon (I have a friend, now I need a shiny one so I can breed them together in the Day Care centre).

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
09.22.2012 , 04:18 PM | #1592
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
If they must have a character or two who do behave like the stereotypes (for any sexuality) I would personally like them to also add a greater depth of character than just 'ooh! isn't he fabulous? shOOooes!' and - also personally - I would prefer it not to be a significant number of companions who adhere to these stereotypes. Yes, there are genuinely real people who do act like these stereotypes but I find it hard to believe that that is the entirety of their personality.

I will freely admit that I do not have any gay friends, but then I do not really have any male friends, female friends or friends in general. That is likely through a lack of trying, but I also don't consider friendship to be something one can easily equate to Pokemon (I have a friend, now I need a shiny one so I can breed them together in the Day Care centre).
Pokemon?? o0 omg NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Eleuril's Avatar


Eleuril
09.22.2012 , 04:20 PM | #1593
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Mass Effect 3. The way they handled the SGRs in that game was perfect. If they do the same with the SGRs here, I don't see a problem. I liked how the SGRLIs in ME3 were just matter-of-fact about who they were. No stereotypes.
Of course sexuality should only be a part of a character's personality and of course obnoxious stereotypes should be avoided. What I am disputing is the idea that lesbian/bisexual female characters shouldn't ever be unfeminine. That's not a sexuality thing. As you stated, there is a straight female companion whom you perceived to be "butch".

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
If they must have a character or two who do behave like the stereotypes (for any sexuality) I would personally like them to also add a greater depth of character than just 'ooh! isn't he fabulous? shOOooes!' and - also personally - I would prefer it not to be a significant number of companions who adhere to these stereotypes. Yes, there are genuinely real people who do act like these stereotypes but I find it hard to believe that that is the entirety of their personality.

I will freely admit that I do not have any gay friends, but then I do not really have any male friends, female friends or friends in general. That is likely through a lack of trying, but I also don't consider friendship to be something one can easily equate to Pokemon (I have a friend, now I need a shiny one so I can breed them together in the Day Care centre).
I agree. What I am disputing is the idea that LGBT companions should be anti-stereotypes. They should be people first and foremost. Saying "Oh, we can't make her in the least bit unfeminine, that's stereotypical" is just as bad, in my opinion.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
09.22.2012 , 04:25 PM | #1594
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
I have my female JK in limbo right now waiting on Kira, hopefully. Kira FTW!

Oh, and my female JK is Chiss.
I just made a Mirialan Guardian for Kira!

Now, we need a Pureblood Sith...all colors of the rainbow!!!

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
09.22.2012 , 04:30 PM | #1595
Quote: Originally Posted by Eleuril View Post
Of course sexuality should only be a part of a character's personality and of course obnoxious stereotypes should be avoided. What I am disputing is the idea that lesbian/bisexual female characters shouldn't ever be unfeminine. That's not a sexuality thing. As you stated, there is a straight female companion whom you perceived to be "butch".
Hey, as long as she doesn't talk lower than Akaavi and look like she could kill The Hulk, and I can see my female toons making out with her, I'm good to go. Tbh, I can't even romance Akaavi with my male smuggler. In spite of Stacy Haiduk (who I've loved ever since The New Adventures of Superboy) I just can't do it. Not into bodybuilder type ladies, here.

Now, it WOULD be kinda fun to have a "Jack" type from Will and Grace on the team as comic relief, but then I always busted a gut laughing at Jack whenever I watched that show.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.22.2012 , 04:35 PM | #1596
Quote: Originally Posted by Eleuril View Post
I agree. What I am disputing is the idea that LGBT companions should be anti-stereotypes. They should be people first and foremost. Saying "Oh, we can't make her in the least bit unfeminine, that's stereotypical" is just as bad, in my opinion.
I completely agree, but from a different perspective (just to be difficult): the personality and the character should come first, then the sexuality - yes life experiences based on sexuality can and do affect personality, but for the most part I consider those to be extra parts of a core. During the development of your character you can go "Ok, I have this woman, she's this and this and this. Ok, let's make her a lesbian, has she had any significant experiences as result of that? How have those affected her, how does that add/change the original plan?" etc. I do not like the idea of starting with "Lesbian! Let's have lesbian things and then.. I don't know... female things and then other things! Yeah, the core of this character's entire being is she likes having sex with women."

Eleuril's Avatar


Eleuril
09.22.2012 , 04:43 PM | #1597
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I completely agree, but from a different perspective (just to be difficult): the personality and the character should come first, then the sexuality - yes life experiences based on sexuality can and do affect personality, but for the most part I consider those to be extra parts of a core. During the development of your character you can go "Ok, I have this woman, she's this and this and this. Ok, let's make her a lesbian, has she had any significant experiences as result of that? How have those affected her, how does that add/change the original plan?" etc. I do not like the idea of starting with "Lesbian! Let's have lesbian things and then.. I don't know... female things and then other things! Yeah, the core of this character's entire being is she likes having sex with women."
I don't either. What I mean is, as I have already said, making a massive effort to make a gay character acceptable by stripping out everything stereotypical is much the same thing. You are still defining them by their sexuality, only this time you're doing so by desperately trying to avoid the stereotypes, rather than playing up to them. Functionally that is the same, because you still haven't made them a person who just happens to be gay.

I do apologise if I come across as somewhat grumpy on the subject. I'm a little tired of the "straight-acting" crap that seems to be doing the rounds in the LGBT community of late.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.22.2012 , 04:49 PM | #1598
I think I'd rather eat my own liver than have Jack from W&G as a companion. Just, as they say, sayin'.

I do worry a bit, however, thinking back to Daniel Erickson's remarks at the Guild Summit that they have known from the inception of the characters which would be SGR-enabled, and it was those that "made sense". That could mean something as innocuous about not including companions like Qyzen or Khem Val, or it might mean "Pierce is tough - no way he could be into guys," or "Talos loves antiques and has these queeny mannerisms. Chalk him up for SGR".

I think Andronikos would be a far, far more interesting relationship option for my Sorcerer than Talos even though I like Talos as a companion and his background in the Imperial Reclamation Service really is a very good fit for my character, whom I RP as a student of Sith mysticism and history. I have no interest at all in a Talos romance, however. Nothing about the character makes that appealing. Andronikos is much more intriguing.

It comes down to what "makes sense" to those who wrote the material. And I use past tense because it is almost certainly written by now, beyond our reach to change even if our wishes were considered. They could tell us. They could have told us in March. They said they could have told us in March and chose not to. I am interested to hear what our options will be and, yes, a little uneasy about what choices have been made in this regard, particularly.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.22.2012 , 04:50 PM | #1599
Considering how many straight men there are out there who obsess over their appearance every moment of the day, having a gay dandy is reasonable. What I'm saying is don't pick up a stereotype and put into the game as the only example. The Star Wars universe - particularly in the Republic - seems to be rather open to varying sexualities and lifestyles (though I must assume there are bastions of conservatism), so it is more likely that sexuality is going to be incidental to personality and not have as many defining moments as it would do if this were a contemporary setting.

Eleuril's Avatar


Eleuril
09.22.2012 , 04:52 PM | #1600
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I think Andronikos would be a far, far more interesting relationship option for my Sorcerer than Talos even though I like Talos as a companion and his background in the Imperial Reclamation Service really is a very good fit for my character, whom I RP as a student of Sith mysticism and history.
Can I sulk and say I had my eye on Talos?