TOR is amazing! =) ...But the game management is awful :(

But, didn't you know if you repeat an error enough you will lead more people to fall? There are many like him on these forums that are set in stone; no reasoned arguement will penetrate. I only engage so as to lessen their effects and give others a more reasoned argument to ponder (that and it IS fun ).

Rift however, suffering from the very same market forces, is incentivizing the heck out of it's player base and has for a long time. Latest example: free expansion with a one year subscription commitment. Different approach to the same problem, so let's not pretend otherwise. In reality Trion's desperate avoidance of a freemium model is very likely because they have another MMO in development and being a small company they will be unable to launch it if they set a Freemium precedent with Rift. Bioware has no such fears for a number of very valid business reasons.

The number of servers closed is a nonsequitur to the entire discussion. Not to mention the scale of the two MMOs was completely different at launch and continue to this day. What they both share though is they are large MMO releases in the modern state of MMOs (ie: within the last 24-36 months). What matters is subs, subs attrition, and subs stabiltiy, for which both Rift and SWTOR have and are following very similar trends. Yes, Rift is thriving, but then again so is SWTOR along very similar trend lines. The difference is Rift has no real upside beyond it's current subs base, whereas SWTOR does precisely because it is moving to a freemium dual access account model.

Actually, based on solid concurrency numbers provided here in this very forum by one of our long standing members (Scorpienne), a conservative view of concurrent users in the servers is ~ 28K. Couple this with generally validated and accepted in the community numbers of 5% concurrent at any given time in an MMO, you can do the math and see that from a conservative estimation..... we have close to 600K active subs right now. Could be higher even, but that's a conservative floor estimate based on actual reasonable and reliable data available to forum members as contrasted to the things you are tossing around with no rational explanation or basis.

Now see, this statement pretty much proves that you are just making things up as you go along, and have no understanding of business. There are no investors in EA or Bioware, as it is a publicly traded company. Further, if you are referring to the investment costs for developing the game, those are sunk capital investment costs and are treated on both a tax and business basis as non-recoverable costs. So there is nothing to repay.

There you go again with the irony Kraye.

Hey man, that only looks bad because you put "massive" in front of it!

Same here. The only reason to waste time responding to hyperbole is for the benefit of newer or less frequent forum members who deserve better then game hate based hyperbole.

I know it's hyperbole and subjective opinion, and by presenting a fact based contrast, other forum members can read and decide for themselves rather then be constantly subjected to a severly skewed negative view of the game.

There are so many huge issues with TOR (hence the massive sub losses/server shutdowns etc..) that its going F2P and will never achieve what it should have from the start. So, yes, I would love to see all the issues resolved and TOR run the way it was expected by millions but is it going to happen? Not in this era.

Attempting to disguise the FACT (heh your word in this argument) that you are repeating yourself does not make you anymore correct. Really now, don't you see that you haven't said anything new in your last 10 posts in threads into which you have been perpetuating your meme de jure?

Really?

Please enlighten us with this list of huge issues.

AND, please enlighten us what exactly should SWTOR have been from the start?

Please do us all a favor and stick to facts, as it will help the discussion immensely

OK i just got word from the zoo keepers, we need to stop tapping on the glass and feeding the monkey. it only enrages him to start acting silly, he's are already out of their habitat.

My post said "many" other fans... Not all other fans.... So clearly you don't fall into the category of the original post... But absolutely many do...

So I guess you're posting here just for the Kraydenfreude?

I still find the game fun. I like playing it. I'm glad that others still find it fun and play (I can still get a group pretty easily for content). And when all's said and done, if it's fun, play it. If it's not, don't.