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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.10.2012 , 03:08 AM | #1261
Quote: Originally Posted by losdia View Post
Weren't there already problems with the Hutts? Something about people having issues with the types of stereos in the Clone Wars CGI movie.
Yes, this was Ziro the Hutt, who was voiced to sound like Truman Capote which caused a big fuss at the time about unfortunate gay stereotypes. My take on it is that if anyone in that situation were perpetrating unfortunate gay stereotypes it was Truman Capote.

I personally take no comfort from what the hermaphroditic nature of Hutt reproduction argues for their sexuality. As much as I hate to feel like a schoolyard dodge-ball captain, I don't want them on our team.

But back to the subject at hand.

Folks, I think we are going to need to remember what we were told in March -- that we are unlikely to get any status updates or new information on SGRs until they are a lot closer to going in. They very much prefer to keep the focus on content that is immanent, and right now this means 1.4 and F2P. Now, the Dev Team could surprise us, but other than keeping the home fires burning here to keep interest evident and to bring new players up to speed on what we know, patience is what I advise.

Goodness knows, I get impatient, too. It's a damnable situation all around. But remember that a week ago we had people who were sure that this project had been abandoned with the move to F2P, and even the more optimistic were questioning whether what we had been told already still held true and whether this topic were at the attention of the developers. We have had confirmation on those points, and the community team has demonstrated they do know we are here.

That's not nothing. True, it doesn't give us anything new, but it's something to hang onto rather than backsliding into total uncertainty. And I think it is as much as we can reasonably hope for until some of the next big stuff -- Operation, Warzone, F2P, HK-51 etc. -- has been implemented. Given that we were told to expect this "this year", however, if we don't at least get a major status update by year's end, I think we'll be justified in expecting one.

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
09.10.2012 , 03:38 AM | #1262
I really hope they'll elaborate a bit more in future content once 1.4 is out. At the very least I think the community should be aware of what's coming in the next three months at any given time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post
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losdia's Avatar


losdia
09.10.2012 , 04:44 AM | #1263
One of the things BW has said that I found very interesting is that there will be a much faster rate of content updates after F2P goes live. It isn't like there is anything that can speed up production that much. Other than hiring more people anyway, which we know they haven't done. That kind of implies that they have a bunch of stuff in or near QA in-house beta right now, but they're pacing its release so they don't overwhelm the QA or live teams. Which implies that if SGR is coming this year they have to have it more or less done now. If that's true than it means an announcement is just a matter of PR types deciding on timing.
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.10.2012 , 05:57 AM | #1264
Quote: Originally Posted by losdia View Post
...If SGR is coming this year they have to have it more or less done now. If that's true than it means an announcement is just a matter of PR types deciding on timing.
I believe there to be an element of this involved, certainly. How much of one I cannot guess, but over the past month or so while I have been trying different avenues of approach to get some sort of acknowlegement of this thread I have specifically presented my inferences regarding overarching policies which restrict comment on same-gender content.

Those enquiries were not acknowleged, neither to confirm nor to refute them. My inference is that there are, in fact, such policies, that the community team needs to clear anything they say on the subject, and that one of the things they cannot discuss is any such policy itself. I can kinda see it, as a means of keeping a cap on controversy, and it has all the earmarks of a policy enacted regardless of how its application would appear.

What I did get through with was discussing the appearance of prejudicial or discriminatory treatment that arise from the silence on the subject and its quarantine without (at that point) any BioWare staff replies. From my conversations, I can completely absolve the Community Team of discriminatory motives. It therefore seems evident that yes, some PR heavies have decided to sit on this pretty hard for the time being.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.10.2012 , 06:25 AM | #1265
(It would appear my last post was deleted after I went to bed, so my apologies for whatever flame war my opinions apparently started.)

Uluain, from what you're saying, this "don't talk about SGRA's until we have combed through every tiny iota and letter that you are using to make sure it's as neutral as possible" policy seems very reminiscent of the super injunctions you can get in the UK (although I'm not sure if they're still around). For those who don't know, super injunctions prevent anyone (media, politicians, members of the general public) from talking about a certain event and they also prevent the existence of the super injunction being talked about - doing either is actually a criminal act. Obviously by their very nature super injunctions are ludicrous and do more harm than good. This "everything must be perfect" in-house policy seems to be having a very similar effect.

Unfortunately due to the nature of the best the Community Team will never be able to talk to us about whether or not this policy is in affect, but one can deduce that it most likely is. It's a pity that someone's attempt at doing the right thing has actually led to so much disillusionment among players about the subject.

(I'm off to Sainsbury's now, please let me know why this post gets deleted later. Ta.)

losdia's Avatar


losdia
09.10.2012 , 06:42 AM | #1266
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I believe there to be an element of this involved, certainly. How much of one I cannot guess, but over the past month or so while I have been trying different avenues of approach to get some sort of acknowlegement of this thread I have specifically presented my inferences regarding overarching policies which restrict comment on same-gender content.

Those enquiries were not acknowleged, neither to confirm nor to refute them. My inference is that there are, in fact, such policies, that the community team needs to clear anything they say on the subject, and that one of the things they cannot discuss is any such policy itself. I can kinda see it, as a means of keeping a cap on controversy, and it has all the earmarks of a policy enacted regardless of how its application would appear.

What I did get through with was discussing the appearance of prejudicial or discriminatory treatment that arise from the silence on the subject and its quarantine without (at that point) any BioWare staff replies. From my conversations, I can completely absolve the Community Team of discriminatory motives. It therefore seems evident that yes, some PR heavies have decided to sit on this pretty hard for the time being.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned this already but last year I saw what EA/BW requirements were for entry level CS management and they were looking for very serious PR types. So, yeah, not that surprised they have people looking over their shoulder. I am kind of curious if they're still as strict in who they have working after the CS restructuring. To be totally honest I was kind of shocked they kept as much of the team as they did for as long as they did. The money they were offering was terrible for what they were looking for, although there was a lot of that going around at the time.

If you ignore all of the doomsaying that keeps coming up. If CS is saying it is still on schedule for this year, that means it has to be at least mostly done. Not "done" done, but finished with key animation and voice acting so it is mostly coding at this point done. At this point BW has to have details they could give us, but for their own reasons they don't feel they can. I still think at least part of it is concerns about the coverage of the release of SGR snowballing in the current media climate.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
09.10.2012 , 07:39 AM | #1267
Quote: Originally Posted by losdia View Post
At this point BW has to have details they could give us, but for their own reasons they don't feel they can. I still think at least part of it is concerns about the coverage of the release of SGR snowballing in the current media climate.
On another possible note, they may have decided upon feature details and, as you say, done them to the point where SGRAs could very nearly be put in, and may be putting off telling us about these details to avoid a big rush of negativity about how they're going to be implemented. Let's be clear - I don't just mean the anti-SGRA people. I don't just mean raiders and PvPers who want their features implemented first. I mean us, as well.

They may be avoiding a situation such as the following:

BW:A: "So we're putting in SGRAs in the next month, we know you've all been waiting a long time, and they'll be for the companions Jim, Wendy, Bruce, Lisa, Mark and Daria -"

Enraged Fan: "WHAT?? Daria's not a lesbian! No way, she couldn't be for THIS reason and THAT reason and THE OTHER reason..."

BW:A: "Um... She's our character."

Enraged Fan: "WELL OBVIOUSLY you know nothing about <sexuality> because if you did there'd be THESE tell-tale signs in place already..."

Other Enraged Fan: "You're not putting them in for Iktueb the Mighty? Iktueb's totally gay. There's <tiny bit of dialogue that could be taken any number of ways> that PROVES he's hot for men!"

BW:A: "Uh... Why did we decide to announce this, again..?"

My main point is that while we can point out any number of factors and groups external to the pro-SGRA folk that might be causing them consternation, we are very likely on the list of Potential Negative Backlash sources, too.
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losdia's Avatar


losdia
09.10.2012 , 08:00 AM | #1268
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
My main point is that while we can point out any number of factors and groups external to the pro-SGRA folk that might be causing them consternation, we are very likely on the list of Potential Negative Backlash sources, too.
Very, very, true. I still think there is a chance that SGR might be new companions only. If that's true I don't think anybody would be happy about it.

Aside from that I would be surprised if they didn't have some research on potential player loses (i.e. how many people that can expect to quit if they do put in SGR) that shows enough of a loss for them to want to wait for the last minute to announce. I doubt they'll really lose that many people over it, or that it would stop them implementing it. Just that there is no point chasing away subscribers and their money while they're still depending on subscriptions.
"Say, Mike... Did we just do something horribly wrong?"
"Yeah, I think so."
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.10.2012 , 08:13 AM | #1269
I see your point, Kioma, and that may be part of it. But at the most, they can only hope to delay when the eventual (pardon my Bocce) sh*tstorm will occur. No matter what they implement, there will be a flood of rage on the forums. It is a curse endemic to the MMO community, and anyone who has been involved for any time would know to expect it.

We do already know that not all companions will available for same-gender romance, so your example is apt. That will, I do not doubt, be a point of furious contention that will light up this thread like nothing since the bombing of Dresden. And no doubt there are other points which, regardless of the choices made, will be as contentious,

Perhaps, then, if we want this thread to continue to be relevant and useful, we can talk about various ways this could be implemented -- that is, about matters that are likely to still be fluid at this point of development.

Yesterday, someone expressed a hope, for example, that SGR content would be available through an optional cash-shop purchase, a notion that has arisen from time to time and one that must present a certain degree of temptation from a financial perspective for those concerned with SWTOR as a business.

But I daresay that "Pay 2 Gay" would be wildly unpopular, with many who have looked forward to SGR being so bitterly demoralized that they would leave the game without so much as a "been good to know you."

What else is there along this vein we could discuss? I still plan to post a summary of what we know vs. what is still unanswered, and perhaps we can sift discussion matters from that, while reminding The Powers That Be what are, to us, the most salient points of uncertainty.

losdia's Avatar


losdia
09.10.2012 , 08:24 AM | #1270
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
What else is there along this vein we could discuss? I still plan to post a summary of what we know vs. what is still unanswered, and perhaps we can sift discussion matters from that, while reminding The Powers That Be what are, to us, the most salient points of uncertainty.
Honestly, as this is the only topic the mods will allow for any discussion of same sex issues/content/potential content in TOR it is a little unreasonable to expect it not to go off topic. Especially since the official topic is "please tell us something? Pretty please? With a Cherry On Top?" It is all bound to come to some point organically eventually, maybe...
"Say, Mike... Did we just do something horribly wrong?"
"Yeah, I think so."
-MST3K, Invasion USA