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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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Quinlynn's Avatar


Quinlynn
09.05.2012 , 03:10 PM | #471
The changes you are making to stuns / CCs as far as range goes, also impacts the value of "Heroic Moment".

Did anyone on your dev team even consider this?

xorv's Avatar


xorv
09.05.2012 , 03:12 PM | #472
Quote: Originally Posted by Achyuta View Post
so what about the chain stuns? I'm pretty sure, the majority of the PVPers in this game hate being stunned for the full 8 seconds and then dying.
doing both- at least pre-50 i'm usualy low health before reolve kicks in and die 1-2seconds later after chain stuned
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Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
09.05.2012 , 03:14 PM | #473
Quote: Originally Posted by Quinlynn View Post
The changes you are making to stuns / CCs as far as range goes, also impacts the value of "Heroic Moment".

Did anyone on your dev team even consider this?
I am convinced that they have a dart board labelled with all of the classes and nerf whatever 2 classes that the dart(s) lands closest to. A couple of these nerfs are non sensical to me and this is the best that I can rationalize it.
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DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
09.05.2012 , 03:15 PM | #474
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
So more stuns then. Under the old system, Resolve built faster because overlapping effects added to resolve whether they increased stun-time or not. Under the new system, overlapping stuns don't add up and you have to actually be stunned for resolve to go up.

I thought reduction of stuns was the goal.
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PakaOno's Avatar


PakaOno
09.05.2012 , 03:17 PM | #475
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post

Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems like under the new system, a person can be stunned longer without the resolve bar filling. Is that really the desired result? Because that's not what people are complaining about with the resolve system...

Again, these changes make me wonder if the devs really play their own game.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
09.05.2012 , 03:21 PM | #476
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hey everyone - Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
So now a group of players can take some poor player in the open world or WZ and stun he/she in turn forever
wihtout the other player beeing able to do anything but uninstal the game ? Could be wrong but thats how it sounds.

Stun-resolve builds after those seconds the player can be stunned again.
Ultimate gank fest in this stunlocking hell !

Sundragon's Avatar


Sundragon
09.05.2012 , 03:21 PM | #477
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
Yes, we know......you act like we didn't read what you posted.

The problem isn't that someone got lots of resolve fast and thus unstoppable, the problem is that we are getting stunned left and right and can't move. All you've done is insure that we will continue to be stunned as long as possible under a coordinated attack, even if the attack isn't coordinated.

So let me make it a bit clearer.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.
Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.
Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.
Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.
Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

As you can see with this remarkably simple analysis/math, the players are going to be stunned MORE ON AVERAGE after the patch, although the MAXIMUM REMAINS UNCHANGED.

We can debate all day about the merits of it, but the math is the math is the math. The average stun lock increases Post 1.4. It isn't hard man.

Edit: It's clear that you believe the problem is that we don't have enough stun-locking in PvP to reduce the effectiveness of certain classes; hence your focus on making more time available to be stunned. In exchange, you shorten the range of some stuns (snipers/gunslingers get to keep their 30m stun, while sorc/sage do not despite wearing light armor) and nerf the effectiveness of the knockback by making it frontal only based.

Maybe instead of making it easier to stunlock classes that appear to be "overpowered" (and for god's sake don't say you don't know which ones are overpowered, its the classes everyone spams in general chat looking for for ranked warzones), perhaps either lower their dps or increase the dps/CC/armor/whatever of the underpowered classes that are not wanted for ranked warzones. Geez man, it's pretty simple stuff. Instead you just made it so that on average people are going to be stunned more (yes, as I said before, the max remains unchanged).

Patch 1.4 should take the least desired PvP class and throw them a few buffs that are amplified based upon +expertise (this way it doesn't impact PvE). Done, move on to the next one. See how smart that was? I didn't do anything to PvE, and I didn't nerf anyone. Amazing, I know.
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Bedrayne's Avatar


Bedrayne
09.05.2012 , 03:26 PM | #478
Quote: Originally Posted by oredith View Post
if people would actually read what they said:



they WANT you to actually have to make a decision, rather than being able to use it without thinking about how it impacts those not your primary focus/target.

the change is directly in line with their stated philosophy.
If that is the case give me force wave out of the back 120 instead of front. I want to be able to escape.

Bedrayne's Avatar


Bedrayne
09.05.2012 , 03:31 PM | #479
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
The issue is that many people don't want WOW's verions of dual speccing.. A convenient little button that changes our gear, button bars, and spec, all in a single painless click.. I don't see what is wrong with what we have now?? If Dual speccing is to expenesinve then do it less.. The cost resets every week.. I think people should be thankful they can do it at all.. If I had my way, it would go back to what it was in WOW BC.. Go see your trainer and pay a large fee to have your talents reset.. I think what we have now is a fair compromise..
Honestly if you want to pay to respec and go through the hassle each time, go for it, more power to you. It obviously doesn't affect you much. However, those of us who wish to bring the best to everything that we do, will respec and do it often. How does my ease of use lower your gameplay? If you want to RP that you are just one thing and be carried either in PvE or PvP (yes there are talents in every tree useful for one and wasted on the other) go for it I just hope I never have you in my guild.

TL:DR I don't understand the opposition,if you want to RP one spec go for it, don't punish the rest of us

Rogaldr's Avatar


Rogaldr
09.05.2012 , 03:36 PM | #480
Hmm Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned gr8 but why the same ability for Comando merc ist redesigned ? Thats balance.
Well as Sorc u allow me to run faster so i can use force speed 10 sec faster hmm gr8 well after i die i can get back to combat fasters = marauders and powertech can kill me more times gr8 for them.
Seriously dont u see what happening on PVP only usable Sorc that now can survive for bit longer is healer. DPS dies just instantly. Also if u take all 3 healers Socerer dies fastest. ATM i thing that Comando/Merc healer is teh hardest to kill and he is getting buffs to be even better.

Well i guess there are not enoght Powertech Vanguard Comando Merc on the servers so You have to boost them so ppl will start creating them and play longer and pay more .
Or maby the whole development team play those class and there fore it needs to be stronger then other.