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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.05.2012 , 02:07 PM | #451
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSunStar View Post
What unintended target(s)? In PvP there are not any incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s) -> all players that are not in your faction and are thus enemies are your intended targets!
imagine if my quell (interrupt) hit everyone in a 5yd range.

everyone not being targetted by me for that interrupt, is an unintended target.

bioware is simply clarifying their position, of how they view this ability, and how they want it to perform. you don't have to agree with it, but that's their position.
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flipp'n yo desk, like a bauss
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iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 02:10 PM | #452
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
I guess I will just say this.. If it isn't broke then don't fix it.. I don't recall ever reading a complaint about Force Wave or the imperial's version of it.. I view it as pointless to change and nothing more than a needless nerf..

What is the point in decreasing the range of force stun, electroctute, and stuff?? 10m really?? So sages now have to run into use it?? What is next?? Decreasding the range of taunts for tanks?? Better not give them any ideas..
I'm figuring that it's not working as intended (which likely means they want you to pick the targets you're going to push, not randomly get kills by hitting some guy that wasn't fighting you into a fire pit), which is sadly one way of looking at something being broken from a developer's stand point. They're changing game play and want to emphasize Force Speed instead of the KB.

Yea, i agree with you on the second point. 10m stun for a FULL ranged class seems awkward...

PAYMOTrig's Avatar


PAYMOTrig
09.05.2012 , 02:11 PM | #453
I played both Jedi Shadow & Sith Sorcerer in 50 ranked WZs. Overload and Force Wave is so useful that it should not be 120-degree cone in front of player. If 360-degree is too large of a radians, is it possible to make it 240-degree instead of 120-degree?

TheSunStar's Avatar


TheSunStar
09.05.2012 , 02:17 PM | #454
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
I'm figuring that it's not working as intended (which likely means they want you to pick the targets you're going to push, not randomly get kills by hitting some guy that wasn't fighting you into a fire pit) [..]
Yes, but as i said in my last post: what about just placing some simple walls? How is placing some walls here and there not better than nerfing abilities?
Put a couple walls down in key spots and the developers will not have to go against the promise to not change Classes solely due to problems that occur in PvP.
⌐~*TheSunStar
The Lytstar Legacy

oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.05.2012 , 02:18 PM | #455
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
Yea, i agree with you on the second point. 10m stun for a FULL ranged class seems awkward...
probably because they want it to be a defensive cooldown, rather than an offensive cooldown?

"hey look, a pyro is walking up to me from 30m away.. oh look, now he's at 10m.. jee, should I use my KB, or my sprint, or my stun"
(╯°□°)╯┻━┻
flipp'n yo desk, like a bauss
Tankie

Slinktress's Avatar


Slinktress
09.05.2012 , 02:20 PM | #456
Thank you. The efforts, overextended as they seem, are much appreciated.

If this doesn't work, can you *please* take repeated advice to eliminate all but the sorc/cons CC in PVP and do away with resolve completely? That class is the light armor wearer and it's too easy to separate or kill the guardian "help". that is IF you even get it in a pickup group.

Any invis DURING combat is really silly, a mini teleport would be much more fun for both sides, and this would give chance of enough confusion to get out of combat if needed and then hide.

Rest of it all seems really well thought out and interesting; can't wait!
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iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 02:21 PM | #457
Quote: Originally Posted by CadaKai View Post
again i say obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.
You decide to walk backwards to reposition.. you walk backwards very slowly the 2 marauders standing behind you move to keep up their main hits that have to be done from behind. In PVE mobs react instantly to repositioning and you miss most of them as you are walking very slowly.

You decide to run forward and turn around... Run forward... spin.. fire move... spin... hit force speed... run away.
In a no lag world this would work great if the people you are fighting were retarded, or had no arms and used a pointy stick to mash their buttons.
In PVE again mobs reposition as soon as you move.

This is a bad change and pretty much you and 1 other guy think it is a good idea.

Obvious troll? or Fool?

Not sure which one
really....?

Ok, running backwards is about 50%-75% of forward pace, hardly impossible to get away from enemies.

In pvp, who's to say you HAVE to run backwards or forwards, there are more ways to go about it too. Left and right while holding right click will cause you to strafe, then it's only a quarter turn to your enemies, not nearly as bad as the full 180 degrees.

and in PvE... mobs dont reposition IMMEDIATELY after you move, they don't teleport or walk through each other, thus the mobs that reach you fastest, are the ones directly in front of you and those to your sides/behind you take a little longer, just long enough to activate a KB on them and knock them all away from you (you can check yourself right now, if you run backwards and use your KB, most mobs will get pushed in front of you, you get the occasional 1 or 2 that gets hit sideways.

And i never said i think this is a good idea, it's a nerf. A nerf that isn't necessarily something i like, but it's not game breaking. It does change the gameplay for the cons/inqs, however, which may be in the direction devs want it to go. It just means you have to slightly change the style of play that you got used to

iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 02:23 PM | #458
Quote: Originally Posted by PAYMOTrig View Post
I played both Jedi Shadow & Sith Sorcerer in 50 ranked WZs. Overload and Force Wave is so useful that it should not be 120-degree cone in front of player. If 360-degree is too large of a radians, is it possible to make it 240-degree instead of 120-degree?
I think the main thing the Devs are going for, is not being able to hit players directly to you sides. Anything greater than that 120 would hit those players. They seem to want a new mechanic for the way consulars/inquisitors use their KB.

xorv's Avatar


xorv
09.05.2012 , 02:24 PM | #459
Quote: Originally Posted by Timias View Post
Developer: "That Sorcerer just knocked my Sentinal back 8 meters! I can't even force leap back to him! And I was behind him! I know, I'll make his Overload only frontal in a cone shape, so I can get 2 more seconds of whipping on him as he's trying to turn around to use it. And if he miraculously survives, he'll knock me in range to jump back, smash him down and finsh his sorry behind.."

Overload a frontal cone shape attack, fine. Make Smash only frontal, and put Sweeping Slash back to only frontal.
Reduce the range of Electrocute? Fine, make ravage interuptable.

Seriously BioWare and Electronic Arts. I am extremely close to to cancelling my subscription.

You want to Balace PvP and make it an enjoyable experience? Make a class that is only PvP. It has no story line, and PvP's from Level 1. Have PvP ranges of levels 1-9, 10-49, and 50. Give it 3 trees, 1 heals, 1 DPS (balanced between Ranged and Melee) and 1 Tank. Select your tree at Level 10 (which will be your Advanced Class choice). There you go. Balanced PvP.

So much for your promise to not "adjust" classes based solely on PvP.

The ONLY thing I see positive in your 1.4 changes, is giving the Mercenary an Interupt.
That is epic thinking you have.

AllisonBerryman's Avatar


AllisonBerryman
09.05.2012 , 02:25 PM | #460 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.



Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.