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1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
09.05.2012 , 12:06 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by NotSevv View Post
God some of the posts in this thread are idiotic. The Sage/Sorc healing nerf was as much about PVE as it was PVP oh and this is a buff not a nerf for those classes....
As are the Merc/Commando ones. The interrupt is almost exclusively a PvE addition. It will certainly help in PvP, but it's far more important to PvE.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

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SlimsPicken's Avatar


SlimsPicken
09.05.2012 , 12:10 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
As are the Merc/Commando ones. The interrupt is almost exclusively a PvE addition. It will certainly help in PvP, but it's far more important to PvE.
It was an oversight to not have an interrupt in the first place, as was pointed out in beta repeatedly by myself and the other merc testers. It was holding the class back in both pve and pvp.
For every man there is a sentence, a string of words, which has the power to destroy him.

sphyg's Avatar


sphyg
09.05.2012 , 12:53 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by paul_preib View Post
Also those changes were, on paper, I n unquestioned nerf. They were a survivable one (having a sorc main) but they were still a nerf. On paper I don't see these that way as they look like sidegrade tweaks or buffs .
^^^ THIS

I read this and got excited.

A sage gets a free instant heal on himself. Reduced cooldown on force sp eed. Oh and let's not forget the immune to interrupts.

Commandos get an interrupt.

Wow thats nice.

Oh but now I have to be facing the targets I want top knock back. WE GOT NERFED.

give me a break. I like these changes for both PvP and pve.

sphyg's Avatar


sphyg
09.05.2012 , 12:59 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by OrionSol View Post
Ruining the AoE pushback is going to KILL healers in PVE.

Stupid change, not needed, not asked for... and not going to work well.
Here's a thought. Get your tank to... I dunno... ... TANK!!!!!

I rarely use my knock back in pve because the tanks I run with know how to tank.

If you rely on your KB in pve you are doing something wrong.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
09.05.2012 , 02:13 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by sphyg View Post
Here's a thought. Get your tank to... I dunno... ... TANK!!!!!

I rarely use my knock back in pve because the tanks I run with know how to tank.

If you rely on your KB in pve you are doing something wrong.
I take it you have never actually tanked.. Besides, relying on someone else is never a good idea.. Like healers, tanks have enough to worry about.. Not to mention we can only do so much..

So here is a thought.. Roll a tank before you tell tanks what to do..
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AllisonBerryman's Avatar


AllisonBerryman
09.05.2012 , 02:33 PM | #96 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
09.05.2012 , 02:36 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
I take it you have never actually tanked.. Besides, relying on someone else is never a good idea.. Like healers, tanks have enough to worry about.. Not to mention we can only do so much..

So here is a thought.. Roll a tank before you tell tanks what to do..
My tank isn't yet level 50 so I can't speak with certainty.

But I've done almost all endgame content with a sage healer and don't find myself needing force wave very much. When I do HM Ops and HM FPs with my guildies I seldom pull aggro. If I do I usually run past the tank and I'm fine.

On the other hand, when I pug HM FPs I tend to pull aggro frequently.

This may be a failure in group coordination, a failure in the dps of handling the adds or a failure in the tank to handle aggro. Since it hardly ever happens when I'm running with one of my guild tanks, I tend to lean in the direction of tank skill.

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
09.05.2012 , 02:48 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.
Looking at my main character a SI - I lose a 30 meter 4 second stun, most often used to break a special abilty and in its place I get a heal that can only heal me. As a group healer if I am healing myself something is going wrong. That said forcing me to get within 10 meters of the battle will probably mean I wil be taking a lot more of a beating so will need this new heal a lot just hope it's not worthless amounts. As for force speed other that BT on hard mode where I use it for a single boss I dont really see it being much use. The change to Overload, well I dont tend to use it a lot because I try to avoid being beaten on, maybe ths will make it better dont know. All the changes here would only have been put in for PvP. Most boses are immune to stuns anyway on PvE.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
09.05.2012 , 02:54 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.
THANK YOU Allison!!!

CC's/stuns/roots, the amount of them in this game, is not fun!
Resolve working as it does right now, is not fun.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

My referral code: here (what you get here)

Twickers's Avatar


Twickers
09.05.2012 , 03:28 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Izorii View Post
Looking at my main character a SI - I lose a 30 meter 4 second stun, most often used to break a special abilty and in its place I get a heal that can only heal me. As a group healer if I am healing myself something is going wrong. That said forcing me to get within 10 meters of the battle will probably mean I wil be taking a lot more of a beating so will need this new heal a lot just hope it's not worthless amounts. As for force speed other that BT on hard mode where I use it for a single boss I dont really see it being much use. The change to Overload, well I dont tend to use it a lot because I try to avoid being beaten on, maybe ths will make it better dont know. All the changes here would only have been put in for PvP. Most boses are immune to stuns anyway on PvE.
So healing yourself because you have to use consumption/noble sacrifice or just heal up normal AoE damage is wrong, right? I'll keep that in mind next time I'm healing a FP and keel over dead because healing myself is doing it wrong