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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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Lamonte's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:31 PM | #441
Overall, I'm very disappointed with the direction of this proposed patch.

"Electro Dart and Cryo Grenade now have a 10-meter range.
Electrocute and Force Stun now have a 10-meter range."

These i can understand, they can be abused now with being insta cast 30 meters can be a bit much. With this change you wont have quite as many chain stuns in effect at once if they have to be up close to cast them.

"In addition, while Overload and Force Wave make for great escape abilities, they have done so previously at a cost to the overall PvP experience. What we want for these abilities is to create distance between you and your target(s), but what frequently occurs is a bad experience for incidental nearby enemies that arenít your intended target(s). Jet Boost and Concussion Charge behave similarly, but they are limited to the Mercenary and Commando. Changing them has a less effective impact on the game, and those Advanced Classes play better with a stronger ability on a longer cooldown.

Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned. These abilities now knock back all targets within a 15-meter 120-degree cone in front of you. Furthermore, these abilities now knock back all potential targets instantly; they no longer wait for an animation note at the end of the ability animation."

This is just bad, bad... incidental nearby enemies that arenít your intended target(s) ?? I'm sorry, but any enemy around me in a 360 degree 8 meter radius is my intended target. As others have said, you're making getting away from enemies even more difficult than it already is now. A lot of the time it is enemies behind you whacking on your behind that you want to put some space between them and you. So now, to knock them back I'd have to stop running forward... turn around and moonwalk slowly, activate force wave, then turn back around again to run away.... how in the world is that supposed to help my survivability? OK, you've extended the knockback area of effect 15 meters......only in front of me. Guess what? Being that the enemy was in front of me, other than cases of ledges and the enemy being slightly off to the side being knocked off said ledge, I'm still going to have to run through the enemy to get where I'm going.
Looks like Jet Boost and Concussion Charge are going to remain the same because those abilities are only used by 2 classes "Changing them has a less effective impact on the game"? Are you kidding me? Really?
To be clear, No, I don't want mercs and commandos to be nerfed in the same way consulars and inquisitors are having done to them. This nerf to cosulars and inquisitors is going to be very detrimental to their survivability.
The only positive thing with the change is enemies getitng knockbacked instantly instead of after the animation runs its course.

"Weíve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. Weíve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects."

My biggest gripe with pvp is getting chained stunned by multiple enemies and die without even being able to move 5 meters before dieing. This change is going to make this much, much worse. So having "reasonable Resolve gain values" applied is going to mean the enemy can chain stun a target many more times before the resolve bar fills up. This is going to translate into targets rarely making it to the goal line unless they are getting solid heals. You should really be looking into diminishing the effects of multiple stuns at once, not allowing more stuns to happen before the resolve bar gets filled up.

"Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18."

This is a welcome change. Mercs and Commandos are like the red-headed stepchildren being the only classes not able to interrupt.

"Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commandoís ability to further escape the attacker."
One of my strategies in Huttball is to stockstrike an enemy off the ledge that's waiting there by the firepit. Or in voidstar knocking them off the bridge. Yes, it sucks when getting knocked off ledge/bridge, but that is the risk one takes standing on a ledge/bridge. How about adjusting how stockstrike/rocket punch gererates resolve instead of taking away our knockback.
If this change goes live, I'll be specing out of concusive force. It's not a matter me saying don't change this or else, I'm just informing you i'm not going to put 2 points into the ability if there the knockback for stockstrike isn't there. The 4 meter extra knockback for concussion charge is nice, but i only speced concussive force because of the knockback for stockstrike.

I'm not going to get into the healing changes because I hate healing and avoid that role like the plague. I'll leave the feedback on that subject to the healers out there.

"Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect."
This is a big boon for sorcs/sages, but my big concern is trying to kill a healer sorc/sage is going to be near impossible during this duration unless there are multiple targets beating on him/her.

"In the case of Infiltration/Deception, the specís fragility was of great concern to many players, insofar as it didnít encourage the spec to contribute well to lengthy fights or lend support to teammates."
In pvp it was very frustrating killing a target and even though the fight is over, a teammate somewhere is fighting and I can't restealth. Not being able to stealth even though I am not in combat doesn't allow me to contribute to lengthy fights.
My operative's burst is averageish in pvp, but in pve is subpar. There is a reason why groups don't want dps scoundrels/operatives in their pve groups(mainly talking operations here, HM FPs have been watered down so much, it doesn't take much dps). This patch does nothing to correct this issue.

"Kinetic Field/Entropic Field has been redesigned. Now critical hits cause you to build a Kinetic/Entropic Field, increasing damage reduction by 1% per point per stack. Stacks up to 3 times."
I know you moved the original effect to fade, but you had an ability that gave up to 30% reduction in area effect damage and give in return up to 3% damage reduction after criting someone 3 times. Seem such a minimal gain for a squishy cloth wearer spec that doesn't have the armor buff. This would make more sense for a darkness spec. Which speaking of that... So is this going to be a 1 point talent skill now?

"Clairvoyant Strike/Voltaic Slash: Using Project/Shock no longer consumes the buff provided by this ability. This change was made to better synergize with Spinning Strike/Assassinate during execute phases."
This sounds really great if I'm reading this correctly. So the buff only goes away if you stop using Clairvoyant Strike/Voltaic Slash long enough for the buff to wear off?

After reading the loving that shadows/assasins are getting, why so little for scoundrels/operatives? These changes aren't going to change much for ops/scounds viability in groups.

MythicAsura's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:38 PM | #442
Quote: Originally Posted by KhodaKat View Post
I came to this game for PvE/Story in a Star Wars universe. I'm sure I'm not the only one. At launch I was playing with a dozen or so 'Star Wars' geeks, who were all excited about playing an MMO in a Star Wars universe. For most of them, it was their first MMO. As fhe first month or two went by, we collected up more Star Wars fans, formed a guild, and had a lot of fun playing the game. We do a little light PvP (helping defend a city, or friendly player when needed, etc...), but PvP is not a central focus to our game play.

Since that time, our guild of 30 or so players has dwindled to three who still have active subscriptions. The major reason they don't log in any more is lack of content updates (no new stories, new planets, new NPC's, companions, etc...). Even the little things. One female friend complained that she had leveled her Scoundrel, romanced Corso, ended up marrying him, and now he won't speak to her. Once the current story ends, it just ends. Nothign has changed in this regard since the game launched in December. Our companions, characters we spend almost all of our time with, are nothing but non-conversational meat bags.

The Codex is broken. One of the things that I enjoyed was the Codex. Learning about the worlds, characters, organizations, etc... it was fascinating... at least it had the potential to be. Instead it's broken, badly. Many of the 'achievements' are broken completely. There are many items that are just not in the game. Achievements for completing codex entries has so much potential. If done well, it could even be an alternative mechanism to advance you characters. Instead, its mostly ignored by most players. As far as I know, not a single minute of development time has been devoted to fixing/updating the codex.

There are many many threads in various forums on this site where players are asking for more story, more content, more depth to the story.

Instead, we get PvP balance...

It's really frustrating. I really want to love this game. I really do. The amount of time the developers are dedicating to PvP in the game is discouraging, especially with all of the attention given to the layoffs of staff and developers.

The Star Wars universe, an IP that I'm sure they paid a ton of money for, has so much story potential, and yet instead of developing more Star Wars story, PvP gets all of the developer attention.

This discourages me about the future of this game.
Currently I haven't beat the story. but its kinda depressing to know that our story just completely ends and we get nothing more. I love star wars but im getting a very "I might quit this game" kinda mind set . screw PvP man I joined for the awesome story telling.

The only reason you see more pvpers up here trying to defend is cause they know that if Pve gets what we want they will not, I mean back when this started it had tons of players. not look at it.....They gotta go free to play....PvP aint making you no money you idiots. Give us more story content. or find yourself broker than MC Hammer.

Fact is Majority join for the story and only end up pvping against there will..... that's ********. Fix it.

Quinlynn's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:41 PM | #443
So why is Shadow / Assassin getting a boost? They aren't powerful enough?

And no oen asked for what you are doing to reslove. Force stun and all the other ranges you changed were never complained about.

What about the fact hat a BH CC spray affects multiple targets, and the Vanguard equivalent only affects one target? Shouldn't these be mirrored? Fix?

I find the lack of research performed by your dev team disturbing.

thefishdude's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:46 PM | #444
Quote: Originally Posted by Quinlynn View Post
So why is Shadow / Assassin getting a boost? They aren't powerful enough?.
You honestly should read before posting anything. The main buffs for these guys is in the DPS tree which smells like that football stuck in the guys colon (from the earlier post). The DPS tree is why most shadows/assassins were tank dps in the first place.
Forum Warrior Apprentice

thefishdude's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:48 PM | #445
Leave it to these guys to take an ability that nobody was complaining about and nerf it. Goodbye Overload , you over powered was fun while it lasted.
Forum Warrior Apprentice

thefishdude's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:50 PM | #446
"Weíve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. Weíve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects."

Stun Wars Continues!!!
Forum Warrior Apprentice

TheSunStar's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:54 PM | #447
Overload and Force Wave [...] but what frequently occurs is a bad experience for incidental nearby enemies that arenít your intended target(s).
What unintended target(s)? In PvP there are not any incidental nearby enemies that arenít your intended target(s) -> all players that are not in your faction and are thus enemies are your intended targets! This is not like PvE where there are two groups of mobs and you end up aggroing both groups (in which case you should not be using an aoe move any way -> that is the player's fault: not the way the ability was designed!)!

There is no disadvantage for you if your aoe move hits more enemy players in PvP.
There is of course a disadvantage for those enemy players -> but that is the case for all aoe moves (that both you can do and the enemy players can do to you)! Hitting all the enemy players around you at that moment is what aoe is all about! With this 120 degree aoe move you will still hit enemy players that you might not have originally thought you would hit as people are constantly moving and changing direction (not to mention there could be some lag). To make it as Mr. Peckenpaugh seems to be suggesting you would have to have some sort of multi- target system where you individually click each target you want affected by your aoe move. That would be tedious and i cannot imagine that being better than the 360-degree-oops-(in reality: yay!)-i-hit-an-extra-enemy-player ability.

The only way i can make sense of this is that those enemy players have been complaining. Yes, it is annoying to get caught in an aoe move from an enemy player -> but if that is something to complain about to the point of something being done about it then all aoe abilities should be removed from the game -or at least from PvP-! (Which would be ridiculous and sad of course - and the same people would end up complaining all over again.)

The only time i can understand people complaining about this is in Hutt Ball when a player is on a walkway and they get pushed off. Changing it to a 120 degree aoe still pushes them off - albeit possibly less enemy players.
If this is the reason for the change:
Changing the design of an ability for the entire game because of things that are happening in one WZ is the wrong approach and i dearly hope that that is not the reason for the change. If it is indeed Hutt Ball that is causing the extra complaints in this area, perhaps they could make parts of the walkways so that no one can be pushed off of them. (A good wall for example.) There will still be key parts of the walkways in which players can be pushed off (keeping the WZ interesting and challenging in that way) - but being pushed off of walkways will in general be reduced, making it less frustrating and allowing for more strategic thinking. To make this balanced you would then have to keep Knights from being able to Force Leap onto the parts of the walkways that are unpushoffable, same goes to similar abilities and also abilities that allow a player from a lower part of the WZ to be able to pull an enemy player off of the walkway. All of these abilities of course being allowed on the parts of the walkways where one can push off (an) enemy player(s).

This could be true for more WZs than just Hutt Ball (or more areas than just those walkways) in which case, again, walls would solve the problem.

As many players have said that know the Overload and Force Wave abilities well:
These abilities are useful also for those that are behind you as enemy players (PvP) and mobs (PvE) tend to surround you: in which case you want them all pushed back - not just the ones in front of you! In a way this is all the more true in PvP where people get behind you on purpose. (Though i am glad that in SWtOR your character automatically turns in order to cast something instead of just getting an annoying error message saying that the target must be in front of you in order for you to be able to use that ability.)
The Lytstar Legacy

Nagadeath's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:55 PM | #448
Quote: Originally Posted by thefishdude View Post
Leave it to these guys to take an ability that nobody was complaining about and nerf it. Goodbye Overload , you over powered was fun while it lasted.
does anyone else feel like this change came about because someone overloaded Austin into the fire in hutball then shouted out "sorry didn't mean to do that" all the while snickering under his breath to which Austins reply was "hmmm guess i need to fix that"?

Achyuta's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 01:56 PM | #449
I'm just curious why Operatives/Smugglers are STILL getting more love than any of the other professions...
Lord Khaűz Sith Jugg

Timias's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 02:03 PM | #450
Developer: "That Sorcerer just knocked my Sentinal back 8 meters! I can't even force leap back to him! And I was behind him! I know, I'll make his Overload only frontal in a cone shape, so I can get 2 more seconds of whipping on him as he's trying to turn around to use it. And if he miraculously survives, he'll knock me in range to jump back, smash him down and finsh his sorry behind.."

Overload a frontal cone shape attack, fine. Make Smash only frontal, and put Sweeping Slash back to only frontal.
Reduce the range of Electrocute? Fine, make ravage interuptable.

Seriously BioWare and Electronic Arts. I am extremely close to to cancelling my subscription.

You want to Balace PvP and make it an enjoyable experience? Make a class that is only PvP. It has no story line, and PvP's from Level 1. Have PvP ranges of levels 1-9, 10-49, and 50. Give it 3 trees, 1 heals, 1 DPS (balanced between Ranged and Melee) and 1 Tank. Select your tree at Level 10 (which will be your Advanced Class choice). There you go. Balanced PvP.

So much for your promise to not "adjust" classes based solely on PvP.

The ONLY thing I see positive in your 1.4 changes, is giving the Mercenary an Interupt.