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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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PakaOno's Avatar


PakaOno
09.05.2012 , 12:06 PM | #421
The fact that the devs spent time/money/energy nerfing Sage/Sorc knockback proves how out of touch they are with class balancing especially in regards to PvP.

Just wow...

I can't believe someone approved this with GW2 just released. Have they ever played a Sorc/Sage in PvP?! Are the devs trying to push their customers away? Because it sure feels like it.

For the love of the game, this nerf should not hit live, because it's going to feed more fuel into the unsub fire.

I already don't enjoy playing my sage, and this pretty much confirms that I shouldn't play it period.

Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
09.05.2012 , 12:07 PM | #422
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post

More QQ. Please list the skill that screwed you over and will cause a PvE apocalypse.
Your elitist attitude says it all, therefore I am not going to bother trying to explain jack to you.

As I have said many times PVE and PVP should have different skill trees and skills, the two should never intersect and affect the other.
Date Joined: March 2009 - Date unsubbed: 9/18/2012
It's been real but the game just wasn't worth the sub for me anymore.
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Sundragon's Avatar


Sundragon
09.05.2012 , 12:24 PM | #423
To everyone who says that the new overload/force wave changes now requires "skill" to use because it obviously just got A LOT harder to knock all the enemies that were attacking you back (since somehow you have to figure out how to get all of these thinking, moving targets in your 120-degree front arc who know you are trying to get them in the frontal arc and trying to avoid it), yes it will require a ton more skill to use. That's certainly true.

It is also certainly true that the class is wearing light armor and tends to have less HP, which means it was a low survivability class to start with. As such, the survivability just went down quite a lot with this change. There is no denying this. The stun went from 30m to 10m, which allows classes at range to still hit you while you cannot stun them. Furthermore, snipers can still stun you from 30m. This also reduces the survivability of a class that had issues to start with.

In exchange, we got....a moderate instant heal every 30 seconds that also activates the GCD. Healer-spec sorc/sage get their 2-sec force speed to be uninterruptable while DPS sorc/sage don't, and it's only 2 seconds of speed anyway, usually leaving you still within 30m range of the enemy, so they can still attack at range or jump to you afterwards unless you are lucky to LOS them. But if you LOS them, they have also LOS you and you can't kill them either. LOS the enemy isn't a win, but a tie. So, you have to hope for a tie, not a win. Great.....

Yes, when looking for a DPS class to join your ranked WZ, I'm sure they'll consider your new 30-sec self-heal ability when thinking about inviting a DPS sorc over that DPS Powertech. LOL It's as if they think RWZ groups don't have healers on the team and so that moderate 30-sec self heal is really worthwhile trade-off.
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oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.05.2012 , 12:34 PM | #424
if people would actually read what they said:

Quote:
In addition, while Overload and Force Wave make for great escape abilities, they have done so previously at a cost to the overall PvP experience. What we want for these abilities is to create distance between you and your target(s), but what frequently occurs is a bad experience for incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s).
they WANT you to actually have to make a decision, rather than being able to use it without thinking about how it impacts those not your primary focus/target.

the change is directly in line with their stated philosophy.
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DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
09.05.2012 , 12:43 PM | #425
Quote: Originally Posted by CadaKai View Post
It has nothing to do with skill of turning and facing your enemies. the issue is when you get swarmed as a sage/sorcerer the mobs circle you. Cant exactly knock them all back and escape when you can only hit the ones in a 120 degree arc.
I see based on your sig that this will not affect you, and you have not dealt with it in game. you are being Obtuse
Kite just ahead of the train pursuing you, turn to face them (if they savagely pursue you as described), instantly use your Force Wave to knock them all back, and then use your new lower cooldown Force Speed to bolt from them all. How hard is that? lol

And I see by your response that you will try every excuse in the book to QQ about the change.


Quote: Originally Posted by Tuscad View Post
Your elitist attitude says it all, therefore I am not going to bother trying to explain jack to you.

As I have said many times PVE and PVP should have different skill trees and skills, the two should never intersect and affect the other.
i.e. I have no argument and just like to QQ.

It has nothing to do with elitism. The question is very basic and simple. You have no answer because there isn't one.


Quote: Originally Posted by Sundragon View Post
To everyone who says that the new overload/force wave changes now requires "skill" to use because it obviously just got A LOT harder to knock all the enemies that were attacking you back
That's missing the point of the change. The point of the change wasn't to require more skill in using Force Wave/Overload. The point was to bring more precision and control to the skill. The current implementation is spammy and haphazard in both PvE and PvP. Now you will have more determination on what targets you hit with FW and where those targets go after knocking them back. The change makes complete sense in that regard.
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Makais's Avatar


Makais
09.05.2012 , 12:50 PM | #426
Where is the buff for assassin/shadow tanks?? Is it Force Cloak down to 2 minutes?? You mention it but I don't see it.
In a previous patch you made assassin tanks much less... tankish, both in PvP and PvE. In PvP, I am now as vulnerable as a dps assassin, but with no dps... So that left me with CC abilities and guard feat. Since you are about to nerf Electrocute and Overload, I am about to be left with the guard feat. Perhaps I should go DPS. But then again, tanks are so hard to come by these days, and you are just making it harder... These changes are, IMO, another bad move. Perhaps you should focus development in some other feats, feats that don't make your clients evaporate day by day...
In Vino Veritas

iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 12:56 PM | #427
Quote: Originally Posted by Makais View Post
Where is the buff for assassin/shadow tanks?? Is it Force Cloak down to 2 minutes?? You mention it but I don't see it.
In a previous patch you made assassin tanks much less... tankish, both in PvP and PvE. In PvP, I am now as vulnerable as a dps assassin, but with no dps... So that left me with CC abilities and guard feat. Since you are about to nerf Electrocute and Overload, I am about to be left with the guard feat. Perhaps I should go DPS. But then again, tanks are so hard to come by these days, and you are just making it harder... These changes are, IMO, another bad move. Perhaps you should focus development in some other feats, feats that don't make your clients evaporate day by day...
Force cloak is down 2min for all assassins and 1:30 if spec'd in deception. Secondly, no tank is truly tank-like in any PvP environment, it s just the way the system works and that in itself needs a separate revamp. As it stands now, almost all tanks and the like are using DPS gear, because the Tank gear gives you such a small increase in survivability in exchange for a massive loss of DPS. Also, since when are Assassins not viable tanks in the PvE environment, they are excellent tanks provided you keep your shield ward thing up.

Felioats's Avatar


Felioats
09.05.2012 , 12:56 PM | #428
If you're going to make Force Wave and Overload a cone, you need to compensate for the nerf by increasing it's force (knockback distance).

And nerfing the distance on Force Stun to 10m -- I suggest you keep it at 30m for Sages. It is a core ability. Heroic Moment even refreshes its cooldown.
>

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
09.05.2012 , 12:56 PM | #429
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
You do realize that there are other consequences from re-speccing that already limits players, right? For instance, how often do you have to re-spec in the middle of something? That alone is rendering the entire convenient/painless argument moot. Add to this that pure re-specs such as dps to tank or dps to healer often require that the person swtiches gear too, or atleast for it to be optimal. It takes quite some time to get two top tier end-game sets. Hence, people re-speccing left and right wouldnt be an issue and it would definitely not have an impact on the gameplay.
You do realize that back in the day there was no such thing as dual speccing.. People had PVE characters and PVP characters.. Yes, even characters that were specced for different roles..

I personally would rather go back to that.. When having a spec was more than just a pair of socks that you changed whenever you wanted..

So my argument is not moot.. You just have a difference of opinion.. Some of us weren't totally spoiled by WOW.. We do remember a time when dual speccing didn't exist.. In many ways, I wish it still didn't.. There are a lot of other folks that feel the same way.. Some of us are not dependent on dual speccing to play an MMO..

As for impact in game play?? Depends on how you look at it.. I never viewed MMO's to be easy and convenient.. Those that do are the reason for the decline of MMO quality.. While WOW's decline isn't completely about dual speccing.. It is about constantly going to easy mode.. WOW is not even the same game it was during vanilla or BC.. It is easy mode now.. And it is just getting easier and easier, and losing subs and losing subs.. Dual speccing is easy mode..
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MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
09.05.2012 , 01:02 PM | #430
Quote: Originally Posted by Bedrayne View Post
I guess yo uare someone who doesn't do both PvP and PvE or, if you do indeed do PvE are one of the rare people who enjoys long queue times. I am one who has heal capable 50s who might be tempted ot heal for the comms if it wasn't such a PITA to respec (cost, money, redo bars, swap gear - assuming I have it on me). And if you even remotely think that most classes have the same spec for PvE as PvP you really need to look a little harder. For those who want to do well in the game dual spec (or more) is a very high priority.
Actually I do PVP and PVE with same character.. I just don't respec for either.. I have all my black hole gear and almost all of my war hero.. Not bad if you ask me..

If you are a tank or a healer, you don't respec.. There is also little to gain by changing your DPS spec to the so called PVP spec.. A PVP spec is just a lame throw back from WOW PVP.. Bioware specifically designed this game so that people wouldn't have to change their specs between PVP and PVE.. Hence the issues people are complaining about in this thread..

The issue is that many people don't want WOW's verions of dual speccing.. A convenient little button that changes our gear, button bars, and spec, all in a single painless click.. I don't see what is wrong with what we have now?? If Dual speccing is to expenesinve then do it less.. The cost resets every week.. I think people should be thankful they can do it at all.. If I had my way, it would go back to what it was in WOW BC.. Go see your trainer and pay a large fee to have your talents reset.. I think what we have now is a fair compromise..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.