Will anything actually retain customers?

Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.

What continues to surprise me is how much people are in denial about the nature of the broader playerbase in MMOs today. They keep wanting to blame the game producers, when in fact much of the problem of retention rests with the very nature of the player base in 2012. People pontificate about how this is not the early 2000s (or 1990s) and an MMO must offer x, y, z, at launch.... but the reality is that MMOs have evolved a lot from those earlier times, but so has the player base (and not in a good way in the context of retention). Players are largely nomadic, selfish, and consumption based. It's the Mongol Horde, only in virtual form, moving across the plains of the MMO portfolio, killing and conusming everything in it's path. Nomads do not settle down anywhere long enough to leave any lasting impression.

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

Quick correction. For us hardcore SW fans SWG was taken from us so we could have this...uh...game.

Quick correction. I'm a hardcore SW fan and I never liked SWG. Shutting SWG down took nothing from me.

And I am sure I am not alone.

Not all hardcore SW fans are SWG fans. It's two different demographics, which clearly do overlap some but remain two different demographics.

SWG was taken from us so we could have this...uh...game.

The casuals will always complain things are hard for them rather than learning game mechanics or evolving the way they play, in the process shaping the game into something basic, easy and dumb then they leave. F2P is an attempt to get them back...we want them back right? right?

BW said lots of people told them in their exit questionaire that they didn't want to pay $15 a month...I have a feeling what they meant was this game isn't worth $15 a month.

I hope the next SW MMO actually requires thought and oh I dunno...work.

Titan will be interesting, to see if Blizzard just try to make WoW 2 or make something new and different.

SWG was taken YEARS ago with the CU. NGE was just salt in the wounds.

opinion, not gonna post the fact or the date.

NO. Causuals are not what you think they are. The new generation of MMORPG "gamer" is capricious. Not all "casuals" are of that same cloth.

point taken but lots of them have already left...that's not "capricious".

I agree for the most part. But, the general short attention span of todays "gamers" is also a factor. BW was wrong to blame all their woes on subcriptions.

Agreed but what state does that leave our game in?

Game is not even 9 months old and you are throwing in the towel? The "next" SW game will still be at the whim of LA. Enjoy this one for what it is and not what you whished it to be and you will be much happier. You know, less QQ more pew pew!

Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.

What continues to surprise me is how much people are in denial about the nature of the broader playerbase in MMOs today. They keep wanting to blame the game producers, when in fact much of the problem of retention rests with the very nature of the player base in 2012. People pontificate about how this is not the early 2000s (or 1990s) and an MMO must offer x, y, z, at launch.... but the reality is that MMOs have evolved a lot from those earlier times, but so has the player base (and not in a good way in the context of retention). Players are largely nomadic, selfish, and consumption based. It's the Mongol Horde, only in virtual form, moving across the plains of the MMO portfolio, killing and conusming everything in it's path. Nomads do not settle down anywhere long enough to leave any lasting impression.

I would say it is the games that have changed and not necessarily the players. The old playerbase is still out there, but nobody makes games for them/us anymore.

It is like saying "turn based strategy games are dead" because almost nobody makes games for that demographic anymore. Yet every few years a new version of Civilization is released and it is always a massive and enduring hit.

Or it is like saying "TV is all garbage reality shows and nobody watches drama anymore". It took an HBO to prove that theory wrong. MMO's need a gaming equivalent of HBO.

Quick correction. I'm a hardcore SW fan and I never liked SWG. Shutting SWG down took nothing from me.

And I am sure I am not alone.

Not all hardcore SW fans are SWG fans. It's two different demographics, which clearly do overlap some but remain two different demographics.