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1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh
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paul_preib's Avatar


paul_preib
09.04.2012 , 04:35 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
As bad as server synching is in this game, force wave will be wasted countless times. You may see someone in front of you ready to be knocked back, but because of how bad synching is, they might be behind you. As well as people circling to stay behind you, you will have almost no chance to hit them in that 120 degree arc. Again, mainly due to the poor server synching.

Server synching is so bad, I can desynch myself on my BH just by using jet charge. I'll then have invisible walls around me, from which I can't escape, and can't attack anyone.

You don't go a freaking year with an ability working one way, then change it.
The flip side to this one could argue would be something like huttball where you thought they were in front, did the knockback, they really were behind you meaning you just knocked them into your own goal.

Personally I like the cone idea overall because it adds an interesting tweak to the playstyle. The force-free self heal is also great and one could argue has pve benefits as well (beyond the obvious of less stress on the healer it also makes corruption easier to use on occassion, allowing you to be a little more free and easy with how you expend resource).


While I could overall see arguments that more tweaks are needed here or there, I think the ones listed here are all interesting changes that will not break or drastically change how these classes play, the overall tone of the OP seems to be alarmist to an unwarranted degree.
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Jamus_Divinus's Avatar


Jamus_Divinus
09.04.2012 , 04:37 PM | #22
I moaned and cried on these forums when the SI healer nerf was posted earlier this year. Many of us did iirc. The thing is that during actual testing (some days later) it was discovered that the changes weren't as bad as feared. Infact within days of the changes going live I must admit I had fully adapted to the new SI healing.

With today's proposed changes I'm going to wait til they go up on the PST before I cry havoc.

Complaining before testing even starts is not wise (learnt that the hard way).
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paul_preib's Avatar


paul_preib
09.04.2012 , 04:40 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Jamus_Divinus View Post
I moaned and cried on these forums when the SI healer nerf was posted earlier this year. Many of us did iirc. The thing is that during actual testing (some days later) it was discovered that the changes weren't as bad as feared. Infact within days of the changes going live I must admit I had fully adapted to the new SI healing.

With today's proposed changes I'm going to wait til they go up on the PST before I cry havoc.

Complaining before testing even starts is not wise (learnt that the hard way).
Also those changes were, on paper, an unquestioned nerf. They were a survivable one (having a sorc main) but they were still a nerf. On paper I don't see these that way as they look like sidegrade tweaks or buffs .
Cyperian -- Sorceror Cyterian-- Sentinel Cyrellian-- Trooper Cyprian-- Sage
Cylerian-- Scoundrel Kyrellian-- Sniper
Of the Bloodborne and Deargna-Fhuil Legacies

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
09.04.2012 , 04:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by OrionSol View Post
http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-...ame-update-1.4

As seen here, there are a slew of serious nerfs coming to certain professions. Why? Because the PVP aspect of this community is complaining (as they will ALWAYS do, no matter what the situation is) about imbalance.

So, to fix it, for the sake of making PVPers happy, they are nerfing PVE skills in the process.

Common mistake for MMORPG developers.

This was the reason SOE put out the "Combat Upgrade" aka, the CU, which, only second to the NGE, was a huge mistake.

Now... what impact is this going to have? Are you going to make the PVP gamers happy? NO! They are just going to see a new class as the FOTM overpowered class and complain about that.

Nerf-bat-to-hell sages, and then some other class becomes OP in WZ's...

I implore you devs... that if you are going to smash a classes play style, because of imbalance in PVP, that maybe you give some thought to how it is going to impact PVE players.

Thanks.
I'm not seeing a ton of changes to PvE damage. I think you can stop the panic now.
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Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
09.04.2012 , 04:41 PM | #25
I don't see these changes being significant in pvp or pve. A smart opponent would position them selves in such a way as to avoid being knock off in huttball, but it does raise the skill level. This will not affect me much as I can turn in air and knock back due to me playing a hunter in wow. Try jumping in the air turn 180 degrees fire an ability and turn 180 degrees back to your original position before you land. That took a bit of mouse turning and skill to do correctly. If I remember correctly it was required to kite mobs. This change actually gives me a reason to do that again.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Less armour = moves faster = more dodging = less getting hit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Oh.. there is plenty of complaining in this thread. As well as demands, expressions of entitlement, and wild dreams.
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Kyriosgundam's Avatar


Kyriosgundam
09.04.2012 , 04:49 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by OrionSol View Post
did you not read it? Both Sages and Shadows are getting nerfed, as a BH/Troopers.
Assassins and Sorcerers are getting nerfed as well. Overload has saved my Assassin more times than I can count because it not only hits those in front of me but also THOSE ENEMIES BEHIND ME! which has been a life saver when solo against a group of targets, and now Overload will only work in front of me? That is not a good idea from where I am standing. I dont do PvP much in fact I hardly do it at all and players like me are getting screwed over all because the PvP fanatics are whining? (which they always do) This game is STORY based which means a higher focus on PvE not PvP in my opinion.
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scionofhorus's Avatar


scionofhorus
09.04.2012 , 04:53 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
I don't see these changes being significant in pvp or pve. A smart opponent would position them selves in such a way as to avoid being knock off in huttball, but it does raise the skill level. This will not affect me much as I can turn in air and knock back due to me playing a hunter in wow. Try jumping in the air turn 180 degrees fire an ability and turn 180 degrees back to your original position before you land. That took a bit of mouse turning and skill to do correctly. If I remember correctly it was required to kite mobs. This change actually gives me a reason to do that again.
Exactly. I already do it plenty as Balance spec.

Selvec's Avatar


Selvec
09.04.2012 , 04:59 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Isn't it interesting how PvP follows natural selection and players apply thought to their environment?

PvP is a team sport and balanced that way, not solo. It's also a tactics activity and it's rock/paper/scissors. Get yourself a stealther buddy to watch your back and stunlock the stunlocker.
You realise of course that in PUG's a team can have no stealths, let alone ones that will be willing to help out and not rack up kills. Limited server pop on Gav Daragon makes PvP a very different ball game compared to high pop servers. Furthermore, OP's are a solo class, which if PvP is a team affair, the class isn't made correctly since they can do fine without the rest of their team. Anything that can Stealth & Heal themselves will find themselves very much self sufficient in PvP, rarely needing a team. There is a reason why full teams of ops or scoundrels are considered one of the worst teams you can encounter in PvP.

It's not just a SWTOR thing either. The combo of stealth & heal is often avoided on other MMO's for the very reason it can make classes completely self reliant in almost every situation.

Cindikle's Avatar


Cindikle
09.04.2012 , 05:06 PM | #29
Guess I'll reply with what I put in my guild Forums

Quote:
Guess I was expecting more.

Made it sound like a big change was happening to resolve. My Marauder's "God Mode" just takes a little longer to activate is all. Jumping into a group and getting 4 people to blow their CC is still going to be worth doing. I don't see this is a "big change"

-Sorc self heal ability sounds interesting depending on it's cooldown. But it sounds amazing for healing sorcs.
-Sorc knockback is going to be OP.
-10m is too short for the stun changes. 15 is better. I can understand 30 being too much.
-Force Speed breaking immobilizing/snare effects is good. When a warrior/knight charges you, you can speed away instantly before they can use another ability, then force slow them. We'll probably have to get use to using Force Choke at that point. Hybrid healing spec if they don't change Lightning Effusion, could become OP.
-Polarity Shift change is kind of OP. I honestly hate the Merc/Trooper one with a passion. 25% DR and I can't stop you from healing? Let me just go find another target to kill. I'd rather see it changed to not allow skill lockouts instead.
-Backlash change is OK as long as this means it now adds resolve. I have to say though... crazy good in PvE. See a player getting low? Bubble them and watch them stun everything around them.
For the sorc knockback. Please note the range increase. I do believe this gives them the longest range knockback. Second only to Force Push.
For the merc knockback. Please note you have TWO knockbacks. They gave you a CC that does not effect resolve.

Ricktur's Avatar


Ricktur
09.04.2012 , 05:19 PM | #30
i agree with the OP, SOOOOOOO many times have i seen skills broken because devs wanna make pvp more "balanced" - a term that only means, "we're going to nerf the most complained about class".

so lame. i wish they would just leave all the pvpers out to dry. i mean, most of them left for superior pvp experienced promised to them by ANet, so i believe hardcore pvpers are less than 20% of the current subscriber base.

screw em.
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