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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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WobblyBits_X's Avatar


WobblyBits_X
09.04.2012 , 04:14 PM | #181
i am somewhat disappointed about the change to rocket punch, i found that knockback quite handy for pve...
force wave did however receive a lot of hate from me about having an effective cast time. some people could see you activating it and react before it took effect which was highly frustrating...
the changes to CC are definitely a good thing and hopefully shadows and operatives will be more desirable for raid content after this.
Defeating a Sandwich only makes it Tastier

Broden's Avatar


Broden
09.04.2012 , 04:16 PM | #182
This "LACK OF CONTENT" Update will get delayed to next month, time to unsub!!!

Ghost_Spectre's Avatar


Ghost_Spectre
09.04.2012 , 04:16 PM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
"The way control abilities were designed encouraged this behavior, and the resulting gameplay could be frustrating." How do you not understand that making Resolve build slower is only going to increase the frequency of the already frustrating and rage-quit inducing stun-locking in PvP?

And you're doing it because it'll benefit unorganized PuGs? How do you not realize that anything that makes things easier for unorganized PuGs will benefit organized pre-made teams even more? This will only further increase the performance gap between PuGs and pre-mades. Which means more frustration and rage-quitting on PuGs, which means the organized PvPers have even less opposition to fight against.

I truly don't mean to sound rude Mr. Peckenpaugh, but do you actually PvP in this game? I don't mean against your fellow developers but against real organized players? I ask because I do and while I'm far from being one of the best PvPers in this game (not even close), even I can see how these changes will only makes things worse.
^^This!

Now, my any one of my melee specialist will spend an eternity in stun while 4 or 5 pound the snail snot out of them reducing their survivabiity by half. Forget using their "get out of stun card." The system sucks and BW just made it worse. No immunity to stun whatsoever with this change. What's there doesn't last long enough to provide a melee specialist long enough time to actually produce for their team. Now that Agents and their ilk can abuse a melee specialist more at range, one cannot close on them and do anything in response. Great job in making a melee specialist useless with these changes. BW, you really know how to screw things up. Thank you so very much.
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WobblyBits_X's Avatar


WobblyBits_X
09.04.2012 , 04:16 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieM View Post
Same here mate - really thought we were due some tweaks but I guess BW think they did enough in 1.3 (hint: they didn't, we need a damage buff to both DPS and Tank Juggs).
tbh i would actually say jugg dps is above assassin or operative at the moment for both pve and pvp...
although for pvp it can vary wildly.
Defeating a Sandwich only makes it Tastier

Russkiier's Avatar


Russkiier
09.04.2012 , 04:22 PM | #185
I don't understand what the big deal is about the stun-range nerfs. The only reason a ranged class needs a stun is to prevent a melee player from getting up in their face. At 10 meters, the ranged class is still out of melee range (except for ravage...), and can still stun/run away.

Additionally, with sorcs, the overload change isn't that big a deal. Back up, overload, turn around and run away. Besides as a sorc, you shouldn't be in the middle of a melee anyways, as an assassion, you have a lot more mobility (plus reduced force speed CD).

Lastly, can someone explain to me how these changes mess up PvE?
To me, they don't seem to be changing DPS or HPS or mitigation, but just CCing and running away.

Robovski's Avatar


Robovski
09.04.2012 , 04:22 PM | #186
Ergh. A massive PvP boost to the detriment of the PvE player. Gee thanks. I was thinking it was time to cancel my sub anyhow.

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
09.04.2012 , 04:23 PM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
I have actually used the method of lagrange multiplier to find the optimized point fo defense, shield and absorb to determine min squishiness (expected fraction of incoming damage) for vangaurds and shadow tanks. I understand sins has better internal/elemental, but that does not make up for the fact that we have no armoring, which was only made worse by 1.3.

I think you are the one that does niot understand the maths... let me help u:

Juggernaut
Squishiness 0.271094018987452
SigmaSquish 0.226892305330718
Spikey-ness 1.58824613731503

PT
Squishiness 0.257624324194631
SigmaSquish 0.192340212356521
Spikey-ness 1.34638148649564

Assassin
Squishiness 0.296295104913598
SigmaSquish 0.26137994914345
Spikey-ness 1.82965964400415

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...5-page-22.html

do u see how assassins have the more squishy, most unreliable and most spikey of all tanks?

that was rhetorical.


not only that, but the PT with their 20% accuracy debuff is the same as giving them 20% defense 1/3 of the time, which is like a 7% defense buff averaged over time, compared to sins 5%. they get 23% buff to shield out of the gate, where as sins need to use a cooldown every 8 seconds (oh what fun that is) to maintain our 20% buff.
It actually does make up for it. There are bosses who are exclusively internal/elemental (Zorn & Stormcaller for example). This coupled with the fact that Shield/Absorb is a much better tank stat than Defense (which Shadows and Vanguards have the highest in the game) makes us far from the "worst" tanks. This isn't even taking into consideration our strong cooldowns (resilience makes life so much easier), the fact that we are the #1 threat generator (single-target and AOE) and [in tank specs] we parse higher than the other two by far.

Our sole, sole weakness is when a boss is nothing but energy/kinetic. But even then, you'd be surprised how comparable the parses are.

The problem with your "numbers" is that they do not reflect specific fights. I mean, you throw a Shadow on Toth and of COURSE they will spike harder than a GUardian or Vanguard. We're not kinetic/energy tanks. We are internal/elemental tanks. Each fight needs to be parsed separately and then evaluated in a larger picture.

The fact is... the low armor doesn't really matter if you organize your Ops properly. Play to your tanks strengths. Not to their weakness.

Skullbash's Avatar


Skullbash
09.04.2012 , 04:23 PM | #188
I think you're very out of touch with your playerbase on the resolve issue, people were complaining about being stunned too often/consecutively, you're making this even worse.

Now you need to take a look at the amount of Survivability cooldowns Marauders/Sentinels have in combination with the highest damage per second in the game.

Also, are you removing the armor penetration on duplicity?

Jurgen-Ferik's Avatar


Jurgen-Ferik
09.04.2012 , 04:27 PM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by oredith View Post
reading comprehension fail.

mercs are not "loosing" (the word you're looking for is losing) a knockback, they said that it didn't affect merc/commandos as much, so they didn't change it.
No, your reading is fail.

They are removing the KNOCKBACK from ROCKETPUNCH.
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WobblyBits_X's Avatar


WobblyBits_X
09.04.2012 , 04:31 PM | #190
Quote: Originally Posted by Jurgen-Ferik View Post
No, your reading is fail.

They are removing the KNOCKBACK from ROCKETPUNCH.
losing the knockback on rocketpunch is only a minor inconvenience... and only really for pve use.
in pvp the extra stun is actually an improvement.
Defeating a Sandwich only makes it Tastier