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Questions about HM Firebrand and Stormcaller

Arancha's Avatar


Arancha
09.03.2012 , 12:14 AM | #1
A second Double Destruction right before Defensive Systems is a sign of not enough DPS or too much?. And how can it be solved?.

Saiyanbob's Avatar


Saiyanbob
09.03.2012 , 12:23 AM | #2
It can be a sign of not enough dps or too much to be honest. Honestly it happens. If you want to make it easier simply have all your ops/snipers drop Orbital on Storm at the beginning. If that doesn't fix it then you can have the tank rotate storm to the dps (if you're not already) instead of the dps running in front. Beyond that make sure your 2 highest dps are on Storm. If you still cant get it down to one then let up on the dps a bit (not alot though or enrage will happen) to give you a moment before Defensive. If you cant fix it at all use a sorc healer on that side that can puddle in the shield to keep the dps who ate DD alive.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
09.03.2012 , 01:14 AM | #3
We had this issue and what we did was:
- All DPS burn SC down to 20%. Bit of tweaking with positioning like having the FB tank facing the bunker and having ranged DPS/healer on the front of FB.
- Once SC is under 20% you don't have to worry about defensive systems anymore so you burn FB like crazy. Make sure atleast 2 party members are on the inside of SC to eat Double Destruction.
- We have the SC tank taunt FB during DD so he eats IA and then the FB tank taunts back
- By the time FB goes down, SC is usually at about 2%, everyone swaps back and down SC goes. For us its usually about the time SC finishes casting Ultimate Destruction.

Kaonis's Avatar


Kaonis
09.03.2012 , 06:46 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
We had this issue and what we did was:
- All DPS burn SC down to 20%. Bit of tweaking with positioning like having the FB tank facing the bunker and having ranged DPS/healer on the front of FB.
- Once SC is under 20% you don't have to worry about defensive systems anymore so you burn FB like crazy. Make sure atleast 2 party members are on the inside of SC to eat Double Destruction.
- We have the SC tank taunt FB during DD so he eats IA and then the FB tank taunts back
- By the time FB goes down, SC is usually at about 2%, everyone swaps back and down SC goes. For us its usually about the time SC finishes casting Ultimate Destruction.
Let me see if I'm understanding this correct, you guys start the fight by jumping at Stormcaller and ganking him for a while, effectively ignoring Firebrand, and then switch to firebrand until they are evened up, and finish them both off?

That sounds like an interesting way to do it if I'm reading that right.

Grobluk's Avatar


Grobluk
09.03.2012 , 07:28 AM | #5
Assuming you're running an 8 man ops:

Have 3 DPS focus on SC, 1 on FB. Get through all 4 dome phases, note that they will come sooner than you're used to.

At that point SC will be at 20%, switch all DPS to FB. Nuke down FB, then mop up SC.

You'll still need 2 DPS on either side to kill the adds during dome phases, you can just have a ranged DPS stand on FB, but DPS SC.

We usually stand on the "INSIDE" of the tanks, not the outside. You can run straight through the turrets in case the adds spawn on the "outside" of the tanks.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.03.2012 , 09:43 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Grobluk View Post
Assuming you're running an 8 man ops:

Have 3 DPS focus on SC, 1 on FB. Get through all 4 dome phases, note that they will come sooner than you're used to.

At that point SC will be at 20%, switch all DPS to FB. Nuke down FB, then mop up SC.

You'll still need 2 DPS on either side to kill the adds during dome phases, you can just have a ranged DPS stand on FB, but DPS SC.

We usually stand on the "INSIDE" of the tanks, not the outside. You can run straight through the turrets in case the adds spawn on the "outside" of the tanks.
This is exactly the strategy we use on the HM tanks. (we do it on SM too just for the lulz, but it doesn't matter there) The very first time we downed them on HM, we used the "4 DPS on SC" strategy, but ironically that brings SC down *too* fast. The problem is that your DPS take DD, then you get knocked off, the tank takes boatloads of damage from the barrage while kiting lightning, you hop back on the tank and take double destruction again almost immediately, then get knocked off… It's just too much damage coming too swiftly. Our sage healer wasn't able to devote any GCDs to fixing up her mana pool, and so she literally just burned out of force before we got SC down below 30%. This is an *insanely* skilled and geared sage too, so it's not a L2P issue. :-) I still think we could have resolved this by having our scoundrel (who was kiting lightning and healing FB) cross-heal a bit more, but we couldn't quite get the coordination down.

The "3 dps on SC with one standing on FB" strategy works extremely well. One of the DPS on FB is a shadow, who taunts immediately after DD and takes the incinerate. In the event that this taunt timing gets messed up, I just vanish out of the incinerate cast, which generally ends up putting it on her (since she's next on the agro table, as the only DPS attacking FB). At 10%, we swap one of our melee DPS (on SC) with the ranged DPS on FB. This is usually the moment of greatest confusion, since unfortunately the timing also works out where DD is happening right at that point. When this happens, the healer ends up taking one of the DD. After the dust settles, we have reshuffled to have two ranged on SC, two melee on FB, who we zerg down until even with SC. Once they're even (usually at about 2-3%), we just kill them both in whatever order seems convenient. Our ranged DPS are quite good at dynamically evening out HP on paired bosses, so they usually just take care of that bit on their own.

One final note: we do have the tank swing SC around to the DPS on DD, but in order for a Guardian (the tank on SC) to do that, the DPS need to be spot on with their agro dumps while the tank is absolutely impeccable with taunt timing and reservation. Guardians can't hold agro outside of that 4 meter radius, and losing agro after DD means insta-wipe. We also play cute dynamic tricks with our guard ability. The whole dance is pretty subliminal at this point, TBH. Thinking about it reminds me just how technical this particular strategy can be in terms of group timing, positioning and execution.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank)

CitizenFry's Avatar


CitizenFry
09.03.2012 , 10:26 AM | #7
My group usually only has 3 DPS on stormcaller until the first Incinerate. That gets Stormcaller enough of a lead to avoid double-Double Destruction, and we don't have to have unbalanced DPS for too long at the end of the fight. Lots of options for this encounter!
Crafting on The Ebon Hawk. PST/mail: Blayze (rep) / K'ron (imp)
Armoring: Commando 26, Reflex 26; Barrel: Patron 26
Mod: Weighted 26+26B, Deflecting 26 Enhancement: Bulwark 26, Battle 26, Finesse 26
Ear: Black Hole Mender's MK-2 Relay

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
09.03.2012 , 03:23 PM | #8
I run HM EC with two different raid groups, one does a tank swap and the other doesnt on FB & SC, but either way both of them balance out their dps 2 on each tank the whole time. If we do get a sound DD on Stormcaller, the tank just jumps off the tank at the end of it to make sure the spire lands on the ground and not on the dps/heals.

We usually only see a second DD on the first phase, since we have dots on the tanks while under the shields, which help burn them to 60/40/20% before the second DD.

On a sidenote both groups have a sorc dps on the ground, and for the group where i play my healer i do a lot of cross healing (about 60-70% of my healing goes to those on SC). I dont notice really any cross healing when i tank for the second raid group, but i seem to be better off after the shield phase and hence need less heals.