Damage Meters Please

Those cookie cutter builds will exist independently of addons as long as you have traditional talent trees. Someone will always be able to find the optimal rotation. That's why WoW moved to utility talents.

As a raid leader then and now, as a guild leader, I will second this. Give me one of those DKs anytime.

Contrary to popular belief, damage meters are not the be-all, end all. If one is focusing on a damage meter, they are not doing their job either as a raid leader or a raider. What is required in this game is exactly as you state, not damage meters. I cannot tell you how many times we wiped in wow because people didn't know their right from left, how to step out of the fire, dispel, what job they were suppose to be doing, or some dps wanted to push his rotation so as to maintain is place on the meter. Most of that was because they grew up focusing on a meter rather then the game.

Further, and what many are failing to explain is that once damage meters are introduced (or any addon), they trivialize content (because the content is designed for play without them). Content would then have to be ramped up to meet the addon. The wow development team actually admired that they were designing their content around addons, not the other way around.

If used correctly, some sort of guaging mechanism would help raid leaders as just one of many tools in the bag, but that would not be the case. Everything would shift to "max damage output" and little else.

Nope. Sounds like a very experienced raid leader to me. ;p


reducto ad abusurdum. No one made this statement. However, a skilled player in equal gear ( or slightly lesser gear), putting out less dps on a meter, but with total raid awareness is more valuable then someone rattling off their rotation and doing little else (especially when causing additional stress on the healers as a result). That is a truism.

thats all very well, in a cute cuddly world, and that was the same QQ that appeared first with WOW.
What you say is not what happened though. What actually happened is that you couldnt raid without addons, you couldnt raid without the exact tree that some spreasheet commando nerd said was the best because he has a graph, you got kicked if you were not doing the highest dps possible (even if you were healing the offtank at the time because the main healer wasnt able to .. yes, i prefered not to wipe rather than downing the boss in ultra-quick time) .. and all the while, your true enjoyment of the game died.

This game doesnt allow addons or hacks, if you want to use addons and hacks then go to WOW. Every game doesnt need to have everything that every single player wants. This game doesnt allow addons or hacks for the very simple reason that so many people complained about their nescessity in WOW.
why do you think legacy is in this game, because BIO learned from WOW as to what really upset players ... now we can trace players across their characters through the legacy and ignore works all the way across the account. How many times did you get spammed with nasty stuff and then the person logs over to an alt and spams you with nasty stuff again if you had ignored their original spamming alt. Eh.
Bioware learned from the failings of WOW and other games and implimented what they thought (and were correct about) would attract players to their different styling of an MMO.
When i saw "no addons allowed", i joined this MMO and the seond i see "addons allowed" i will delete my account.

Of the 14 people in my WOW guild that left to play this game, all 14 joined for precisely that same reason. WOW had become too nerdy and sad.
addons and DPS meters and all that sort of rot will lead SWTOR down the dark road that WOW went.

I dont want another WOW, I want an individual SWTOR ... and that means no addons/DPS meters ... a place where i can go and enjoy myself and the game.

[QUOTE=
I don't want another WOW, I want an individual SWTOR ... and that means no addons / DPS meters ... a place where i can go and enjoy myself and the game.[/QUOTE]

Again..Nobody is asking YOU to use those thing if they're added. just because it would be available to use for others does make it a requirement for you or your guild..but let people have their own options on how they like to play MMos and use the tools they want.

Problem i see is this..we here in America, and some other parts of the world have gotten to the point mentally..if i don't like something..nobody should like it also...if i believe in this...everyone should also believe it...that don't fly in my free world sry.. Only ones that will play swtor are the casuals and f2p people coming soon...once SWTOR became known as a watered down wow ..hardcore pvp / raider people left..leaveing only you casuals..well subs are way down cause there wont be enough of the swg / casuals left...just like with swg

This a thousand times.

Before they add some tool they makes more people not want play with each other. I hope they add music. You know something usefull. How many people are actually recruiting and spamming requirements. Not many because the game doesn't have millions of people where you can just drop one person if they aren't making it.

Many guilds are just happy to get new members. Wow didn't even have damage meters untill much later. If you want wow..then go back to wow.

It's already hard enough to enjoy PuGs within the community without adding further potential barriers (and a visual representation of someone not pulling their weight would be a barrier) I also personally would prefer the development time to be spent on other issues.

I completely understand why some people want damage meters and how they can be used positively. But I think in the bigger picture the cons outweigh the pros.

You're exaggerating too much.
First, the concept of fotm builds and optimal rotations is here from day one. The way this game is designed itself favors such things.
Second, noone really stops you from playing in a spec you enjoy most. Apart from top guids at pogress time, noone cares what spec do you play in if you play it good. Take WoW hunter class for example. Starting with 4.3, surv is the best spec both in theory and in practice. However, i'm yet to see a guild that refused to take in a good hunter who enjoys one of the 2 other specs. Heck, even a main hunter of Paragon, top 1 guild in the world, was playing BM. That definitely means something.
Care to give at least one example of content being trivialized because of the addons? I thought that addons (recount excluded) are here to make the life easier, not to complicate the content to a point where it has to be trivialized.
To prioritize player's skill and awareness over the damage/healing he provides is one thing. But to completely ignore his inability to be on par with other people is a different story.
Just curious, are you willing to take a bunch of, let's say, 359 geared people to progress in ds hc, even if they are smart and know tactics perfectly? :P
You don't want to know how many times i've seen this with my own eyes both in trade chat and on forums back then.
I'm not arguing with that. Again, my point is, no matter how skilled can any given player be, he can't be deemed ready for certain content if he doesn't have a minimum required gear for it, so he can pull the minimum acceptable dps or hps.
I like it how you call people nerds just because they are interested in something different than you. And how you tell other people what to do in your previous post. And how you lie just to prove your point (hacks, eh?). You look so cool and not childish at all! My hero, no less...
Oh and, by the way, you can already delete your account mate. The parsers are there and they are approved by Bioware.

I'm personally content with using MoniTor in my guild. It has a heal/damage/ and threat meter. I agree that meters should be used in high end content. EC HM and TFB HM for sure.

I was able to find the cause of hitting the enrage timer due to meters on Tuesday. Our dps had accidently dropped his 4 piece bonus and put on a random Black Hole shell by accident. Yes, I could inspect everyone head to toe before each pull, but if they are my consistent raiders then that's not something that a raid leader looks at. Only with PUGs. The MoniTor meter showed his dps suffering by 200 which wasn't normal so I asked him about it and THEN looked at his gear. They help.

I dont care either way. In wow it was handy but also the tools where so flawed. simply not adding things that suposed to be added a long time shaman totems where not included and it never gets included the benefit of certain classes like armor breaking or totem buffing so certain classes becomes flavor of the week and nerf shouters are even more on the forum cause the dps is 100 higher then the other class but they forget about other important stuff like interupt i myself use a outside parser to keep my rotation optimal but yea i guess a ingame would be nice.