EA COO (Peter Moore) maintains confidence in BioWare

Well...he is the COO and I believe him. Give it some consideration for a second. If 40% of exiting players stated the subscription model is why they left, then going F2P would potentially bring back half the players that left the game.

Also consider by EA's last quarterly there are between 700,000 and one million current subscribers. You can dispute some of those figures if you want, but it won't make much of a difference in terms of what will likely be the end result. With F2P coming, the future is certainly bright in terms of improving the subscriber base based on the data BW and EA have. So it's a perfectly reasonable thing for the COO to say.


I recall during SWTOR Beta that BW was considering implementing microtransactions at that time, but there was an outcry on the forums that seemed to pretty much squash the idea. Not sure if the protest did squash the idea, but EA/BW were already considering some form of microtransactions/F2P model during Beta.


This argument is tired and has already been refuted by BW themselves. PvP in this game is not a minor thing, by BW's own admission. You need to go back and review BW's press releases and their initial surprise at the popularity of PvP and the fact that more than 50% of the player base participated in PvP content.

It's not a minor thing and that is why our last major Patch 1.3 didn't include any PvE content, but did include RWZs for PvP. It's also why there is a new WZ coming out in a month or so, and why Makeb is being designed to be OPvP friendly.

LOTRO is a one zone sandbox that barely qualifies for PvP. That game's PvP really isn't in any conversation for what flies for good or relevant PvP content. Virtually every MMO's PvP is better. Actually, I can't think of one game's PvP that isn't. lol


You don't know much about PvP do you? The fact that two opposing factions can cross paths on pretty much every planet in the game and have a fight is precisely what starts good OPvP. You must play on a PvE server. lol


You are right that this is mainly a PvE game. You are wrong that PvP isn't an important part of the game. It's so important that there is a development team devoted to PvP and creating PvP content, that the lead PvP Dev Gabe Amantalego(sp?) has stated the ambition for the PvP in SWTOR to be an E-Sport. You have been raiding too much I think. You don't seem to know much about this game or its players.

And nobody has been more rude to other people/players in this thread than yourself. Now I don't know if you are a carebear or a PvPer, but you don't have to be either to be a douche.

See, that's the funny thing about making a "WoW clone"....WoW still exists. I mean, if one likes the WoW formula, are they not playing WoW? And those that do not, are they not looking for something different?

Besides, WoW borrowed most of it's standards anyway from other games. At any rate, people that love the WoW system play WoW. Those that do not look for something different.

This game is really a fantasy MMO that has strong WoW similarities with a Star Wars flavor. This is most definitely NOT a Star Wars MMO in it's current state IMO.

And thats where a lot of the bitterness comes from...

PvPers were told that PvP was going to be a big focus by James Ohlen. PvPers were told they were going to have a PvP planet with quests, objectives, and faction vs faction combat, that was going to "blow them away". They were told that some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world were working on this game.

Was it Hype from the developers? Perhaps, but don't blame the consumer, or think them "silly" when the game developer states one thing, and it turns into a "mini-game".

Hype only affects you if you internalize it. Nobody can make you internalize it but you. If you do, it's on you.

Rule number 1: never buy into the hype about an MMO. Not the company hype, not the gamesite hype, and not the self-inflicted hype.

Rule number 2: as soon as you start to buy into any hype, but especially self-inflicted hype, please refer to rule 1.

IMO, PvPers are probably the most prone segment of the community to buy in to hype, and the least likely to take ownership for buying in to hype. Also the most easily disappointed, followed by hard core raiders.

Diregarding the hype...

the "PvP" planet doesn't exist. Nor does it blow us away.

The "most experienced PvP developers in the world" rarely if ever visit the pvp forums, and in their infinite wisdom, have created a "mini-game".

You yourself said its a pve game, and it would be silly to think otherwise, when we heard PvP is going to be a big focus.. Did they (pvpers) think it was going to be the sole focus? No, that would be silly.

Stop blaming the consumer.

I can agree with that observation, its a pitty, although Im staying very optimistic (granted I was like that with this game). Im and old DaoCer so i have fairly specific desires and requirments, which colors my views on such things greatly (and which GW2 delivers perfectly)... Warhammer had potential but failed to reach it, and ended up trying to pander to the new-geners that flocked in from WoW only to stick there pre conceived ideas on mass onto the game which the devs blindly went along with.

Thankfully, GW2 has that sort of ESport included (and it is rather fun) so hopefully there wont be a large ammount of cross contamination between the two.

I would play swtor F2P... ONLY if what I earned and can play now wasnt locked from me, which unfortunately, they are... ive payed for it, earned it, as such I should have some benefit from that fact, not suddenly having a large portion of it taken away as some sort of punishment for my choices... and yes, id 1 up purchase new raids to continue with my guild or new WZ's when they come out... but only if I can F2P with what I currently have. WHich isnt gonna happen, and I dont like that one bit.

This is a really good point and makes me realize that ever since the introduction of "esport," into MMOs they almost have a Call of Duty appeal to the PvP crowd now. Play it until the next one comes a long. The difference here is that these games are designed to be one that you play forever, and with this mechanics in place the PvP crowd wants to play forever but at the same time they want their next big MMO. Kind of interesting, kind of off from what you were saying but just a thought.

This isn't the consumer's fault per se, more like the supply side of supply and demand is not being met. In my opinion games need to be either PVP or PVE, not both (and don't get me wrong, I enjoy PVP from time to time it is just not the cornerstone of my enjoyment). If you remove the expectation of "good pvp," all together, like LOTRO for example, people don't get irritated when it sucks. In fact, while I played LOTRO tons of people loved Monster Play, myself included, and in retrospect it was one of the saddest excuses for PVP ever.

But the game was never meant for it, Turbine knew it, and didn't try to bend to it...

I'm still waiting for the more frequent content updates promised since before 1.2 , but at this point I'm pretty much tired of chewing on bones Lol

I disagree, PVPers can have more patience with new content because PVP is about user generated content, you will always be having differnt fights with different people, there were a bunch of Raiders demanding more content as soon as they beat Eternity Vault, a PVPer doesnt demand more content when he beats a warzone, It's like a soccer player demanding new sports because he already won a single match.

PVPers by and large would have stick to SWTOR if the following hadn't happen

1) Delay of Ranked Warzones
2) Removal of Open World PVP on Ilum (the mechanics, that is)

I was very active on PVP back then and when those things happened, the PVP community on my server started to shrink, rapidly.

Yes they do that's business. You have something new and big you have a surplus of help. Once it's over and up and running its time to streamline your work force. It's that way in every business.