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Solo Ranked WZ's (Terrible idea)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Solo Ranked WZ's (Terrible idea)

Givemedanger's Avatar


Givemedanger
08.22.2012 , 04:10 PM | #61
And you're an expert i'm guessing.

Kawiki's Avatar


Kawiki
08.22.2012 , 04:10 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
I appreciate the nod, lol. Yeah, I may not be likeable all the time, but I rarely post super serious threads in the PvP forums. This request just irks me, as I do not want RWZ's to become the next farming grounds for lazy players. We all know these types exist, and since solo players would NOT have control over that, further illustrates the flaw in such a request. Anyhoo, thanks for the reply.
The simple solution is to put an Expertise requirement on it. Whatever full BM or above is that is the minimum expertise level you need - or even higher. There are simple ways around making it farming ground and to weed out the "i'm only there for the ranked comms group".

People who are well geared that don't have a PvP centric group of guildies want a competitive environment also. And frankly, I'd bet this population far outnumbers the people that are already on 8 man teams.

Ghostuka's Avatar


Ghostuka
08.22.2012 , 04:11 PM | #63
I would like it if the ranking system was to be used effectively and the teams were put together the same way groupfinder works.

But I don't. Because, people who have zero ranking (needing 10 to get a rank) will be put together random. If a good player is teamed up with the "carebears" (such a funny word) or a couple of fails in the team, or if they were facing a premade of 8 with voice, that means he will lose and get a bad rating. Imagine this repeats several times, and he ends up at low rating, since when you start from zero you have 50% chance of losing. Imagine it is a bad team a few times in a row and you have a bad rating.

Then the RGF will match you based on your rate, since you are not at zero level anymore. And you know who you will be matched together? Carebears (hahahahaha, i love this word). Since they have the same rating as you do. This would result in a legitimate QQ on the forums (which could be the only legitimate QQ on the forums)

This is just the most basic issue with solo Q. Next is the QQ about "hackers" (hackers= people you lose the game against, not necessarily real hackers) or 8 man premades or RWZ group finder not working proper since you "lost 3 games last night but you should not have because you are pro". Or RWZ GF ended up giving you 1 tank only, the other guy who listed as a tank "was not geared proper for tanking", etc etc etc. This is just going to flood the forums with so much QQ, we will miss the first week of 1.2 patch.

I would like a system where I would not be ended up with no healers, or people who are really new to the PVP. I would love to end up with a team that are at similar skill level with me. But I don't have a solution for it. I don't think solo-Q would solve it either.
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Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
08.22.2012 , 04:12 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Brool View Post
Pistols I understand you think most people want this to farm gear, Again, that has no bearing why me and my guildie would want it. we have our gear, we are augmented. We are tired of pugging in normal warzones vs recruit gear. We are not going to leave our guild that consists of 3 of our other close friends that dont enjoy pvp just to join a guild that runs ranked warzones.

Secondly, No one is saying that bioware has to pit solo queue vs 8 man queue. Although, not that anyone would get the picture but FPS games have had ranked queue's that involved solo and groups for years now. I dont care how many times people say this is not an FPS so that wouldnt work, they are wrong. It is still 8 players vs 8 players. Give us our own ranked bracket for solo queue, i am fine with that. However, excluding the people that are in smaller guilds from ranked warzones in a game that is having trouble with subscriptions in the first place isn't really that great.

I personally love the game still, I truly enjoy the pvp. I could care less about OwPVP because I come from a competitive gaming background. I've been to the tournements. I've played with money on the line, and again this is why I am wanting solo ranked queue's. You can have you're "top tier teams", but give the people who do not have the numbers the ability to show our stuff as well.

Telling us to join a pug is not the option. I've joined the pug before. I took 7 lose's in a row to the top republic team on our sever the first day ranked came out. Trust me, it wasnt because of me. I still enjoyed everyone one of those matches, because even tho I was taking the loses, I was still showing that I stacked up. I went from a non target in the first warzone, to the first target the entire team went after whenever I stepped onto the field.

Also, those pugs tend to be gear farmers, and thats not what I am looking for.

Give us a solo ranked bracket that allows us upto 2 or 3 members in a group to queue up, put a minimum valor rank or expertise number required to be allowed to queue. Keep us seperate from you guys, put us up against you guys. I dont care. BUT, as you say you dont want to water down you're ranked pvp, try being us that can only queue up against people in recruit gear or with no clue in how to play in the first place.
I feel you man, I just firmly believe RWZ's should be a group setting, just like 8/16 PvE high tier fights. If players could just "solo queue" into those, without the proper make-up, it's not any fun at all. Why this needs to be different for PvP, I guess I just don't know. I'm literally the last of my RWZ team left in this game, minus a few here and there, and we have no issues rounding out our group if we want to get something going. When we pug it, we require mumble/vent comms, and obviously do our best profession wise.

Oddly enough, gear is last on the list of priority. We do well, cause we instruct on objectives, and while we won't win every game we have a good time doing it. I just don't want this area of PvP to become a laughing stock of farmers...it's literally the last bastion of competitve PvP. I'd prefer it the Devs found a way to make the grind a bit better for those grinding (and I am as well btw, my GS is only half BM/WH), but I don't want a band-aid fix for something that is supposed to be a team oriented game. Any rate, I respect your views on the matter, and just hope something comes out that will get us all (or near all) on the same page.

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
08.22.2012 , 04:15 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
Pistols, while I agree with your overall point, let's be honest. Since the first couple weeks of RWZs when there were actually some good fights and people hadn't yet realized the system was a bust, peeps have only been using RWZs to farm gear, both goods and bads.

Ideally, yes. RWZs should only be where the best fights are to be found. But nobody is using RWZs to find good fights. Everyone is using RWZs to gear up. And frankly, until there is a functional matchmaking system, and until there is Xserver queuing, that's all RWZs will be good for.

So in the end, adding a RWZ Solo queue won't make a difference of how those matches are commencing presently. There will just be more peeps in the pool and more RWZ matches. As an aside, my Imp guild was in the RWZ queue for over three hours last night without one pop. The system could definitely use some new blood because currently it's near impossible to even get a match.
Yeah man I hear that. Sadly, with GW2 and EA/Mythic ruining the game here, it's hard to fight for it. But I'd be a happy roleplayer if they gave us cross server queue options.

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
08.22.2012 , 04:18 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostuka View Post
I would like it if the ranking system was to be used effectively and the teams were put together the same way groupfinder works.

But I don't. Because, people who have zero ranking (needing 10 to get a rank) will be put together random. If a good player is teamed up with the "carebears" (such a funny word) or a couple of fails in the team, or if they were facing a premade of 8 with voice, that means he will lose and get a bad rating. Imagine this repeats several times, and he ends up at low rating, since when you start from zero you have 50% chance of losing. Imagine it is a bad team a few times in a row and you have a bad rating.

Then the RGF will match you based on your rate, since you are not at zero level anymore. And you know who you will be matched together? Carebears (hahahahaha, i love this word). Since they have the same rating as you do. This would result in a legitimate QQ on the forums (which could be the only legitimate QQ on the forums)

This is just the most basic issue with solo Q. Next is the QQ about "hackers" (hackers= people you lose the game against, not necessarily real hackers) or 8 man premades or RWZ group finder not working proper since you "lost 3 games last night but you should not have because you are pro". Or RWZ GF ended up giving you 1 tank only, the other guy who listed as a tank "was not geared proper for tanking", etc etc etc. This is just going to flood the forums with so much QQ, we will miss the first week of 1.2 patch.

I would like a system where I would not be ended up with no healers, or people who are really new to the PVP. I would love to end up with a team that are at similar skill level with me. But I don't have a solution for it. I don't think solo-Q would solve it either.
I didn't want to touch on the baddies that always claim "hacks" (Quinlynn types lol), but yeah the amount of QQ generated would be mind blowing. So many players who have no idea what other classes can do, it's pretty darn scary. Thanks for the input mang.

Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
08.22.2012 , 04:26 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by coerCez View Post
You still don't get it do you? Without abolishing the gear disparity and making gear, for today's standards, such a grind to acquire, it is easy for people to quit trying. Because, you know, this is only a game and people don't have neither the time nor the motivation to spend 3 months playing casually to acquire gear to compete so that they can start to have fun.

If you make the gear disparity disappear, you only leave skill as an excuse to quit trying. Well I guarantee you people are a lot more competitive then they are grind tolerant.

So, you abolish gear grind for PvP and give more incentives for people to run RWs, such as establishing a web page where there are statistics for RW teams displayed, MVPs are selected based on performence, Showcase of RW matches that were so close it was nail biting, etc.

Gear incentives for PvP DO NOT WORK. Understand that already.
It wouldn't solve much.

The only solution would be to make the game a 5-skills-max game, make it extremely easy to play to even the difference between a good and a bad player, make most WZ a deathmatch only map (easy to understand), and eventually, you'll have balanced game.

Any PvP games that counts on players skill to even things out is failing hard. There is too much disparity between players, be it PvP and PvE. In PvP, it's worse because you can't learn a script.
Look how many people QQ for LI HM being too hard with a 4-man group, and consider some people are even capable of 2-manning it.
No, you want a balanced PvP game, make it a very easy game, accessible to a 5-year old boy, requiring no learning curve.
Yes, I know, that defeats the purpose of competition, but that's how balance can be achieved.

There is a reason why soccer is the most popular sport in the world. You can easily play it without knowing much about it, everyone can run and everyone can shoot in something. Try to do the same with Ice Hockey, you would need a firm 4 years to learn how to skate well enough to be able to do decent.

Balancing things is not possible without making it insanely dumb, and no amount of gear removal will change this.
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening

DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
08.22.2012 , 04:29 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Nolenthar View Post
There is a reason why soccer is the most popular sport in the world.
Dude, I LOL'd so hard at this. Almost brought tears to my eyes. +Rep
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Groncho's Avatar


Groncho
08.22.2012 , 04:31 PM | #69
2 things
1) gear makes a difference even in a 8v8, lots of the game mechanics (dps, tanking and healing) are heavily influenced not only by expertise but also from the mod swapping in each class. Pugging against fully optimized and coordinated teams is boring: u know ur gonna loose, theres NO competition at all there. Is just like beating a training dummy and i have been in both sides, totally destroyed and destroying badly other teams.

2) The lack of players and big guilds is here. Some new ones will form up but most already dissapeared as the player base IS shrinking.

Pistols mai man we will all love a skill<gear pvp enviroment and i agree that solo ranked is a QQ mostly based on getting comms faster. We all grinded our gear. But i have to agree with some of the ideas posted:

a) gear progression should be redesigned just because Making ppl get faster to the full optimization of a AC class will make RWZ's a bigger thing
b) At the end the teams with more skill will be the same teams that now are destroying the less skilled BUT gear won't be an excuse

BUT: Lolgrinding won't stop, there is a business model behind that and is designed to retain players. THE GRINDING is the way to get $ from the playerbase

no to the solo RWz's
yes to a new gear system

The game is good but it can (or could if its not dead yet) be better
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Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
08.22.2012 , 04:34 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Mahariel View Post
I am a paying player thus i have the right to a fair and competitive pvp environment without unfair gear disparity due to time spent ( here paying customer is the status and time spent is other factors )
You're a paying customer so you have the right to log in the game and do whatever people does. You have equal chance when it comes to everything in this game. Sure this chance are proportional to your time and gaming skills.

I'm a human being and I have the right to work in a company and win money. My ability to win money is however proportional to the energy I give my job and my working skills.

I don't get where it's hard to get.

If I agree with your point, then I could, I don't know, say

"I'm a paying customer and I have the right to ask for an equal chance to win Warzones than anyone else, regardless of my time or skills. Please change the medal and win system so it's entirely randomized."
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening