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Nightmare Pilgrim griefing - request for clear statement from CS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Customer Service
Nightmare Pilgrim griefing - request for clear statement from CS
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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.17.2012 , 03:41 AM | #1
So, last night on our PvE server, an Imperial group and my Republic group were both waiting for Nightmare Pilgrim to respawn. Both groups had 16 people when it became available. Some of our group had just arrived, and to avoid wiping due to rushing, we let the Imperial group start him first.

We stood at a distance and watched without any interference. He eventually enraged, and they wiped.

Having given them a chance, we then started the encounter. After a few seconds, the Imperials started taunting the bosses, and the NMP's frontal AoE quickly wiped our raid.

I FRAPS'ed the whole thing, available here: http://youtu.be/QkF6kJb77vE

We were pretty upset at this blatant griefing. They then made a second attempt. A number of raid members wanted to retaliate for their griefing, but we did nothing to interfere. Again the boss eventually enraged and they wiped.

We then made a second attempt, and within seconds, they again taunted the NMP and killed most of our raid with his AoE.

I FRAPS'ed this too, available here: http://youtu.be/OWN8tkO-OPE

They then made a third attempt, which we yet again did not interfere with, and this time they (finally) downed the boss.

If there is a policy against this sort of griefing on a PvE server (no players in either raid were flagged for PvP, and it could just as easily been a same-faction guild doing the griefing), it needs to be enforced strongly. Meaning, you need to make examples out of people who do it.

On the other hand, if this is considered acceptable practice, that too needs to be clearly stated, as it would allow a deterrent effect (i.e. if you grief us, we'll grief you). Feeling strongly that their interference with our attempt violated the TOS (interfering with the normal flow of PvE gameplay on a PvE server), we did not retaliate in kind. But if we had retaliated, it is possible negotiation could have resolved the situation in an obvious way (you take one try, we take one try). Unfortunately, as it happened, we decided not to use that leverage because we felt it would make us as guilty as them.

In either case, a clear and unambiguous statement of whether this type of behavior will be

a) punished, or
b) tolerated, and thus encouraged

would be greatly appreciated.
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
The Harbinger

Tirvaak's Avatar


Tirvaak
08.17.2012 , 03:49 AM | #2 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hi LagunaD,

Thank you for posting. The best option at this point to have this looked into is to log a ticket throguh the in-game portal so that this can be looked into by the correct department. I would ask you to include all of the information you have provided in this thread.

Once you have sent on these details we will investigate this issue, and take any appropriate action in accordance with our policies and procedures. Please be aware that we are unable to discuss any actions taken against another player’s account and therefore will not inform you of the outcome of our investigation.

Thanks.

Tirvaak | Bioware Customer Service - Forum Support

JFerret's Avatar


JFerret
08.17.2012 , 03:51 AM | #3
They will not give you a clear statement because they know that it is ridiculous this boss isnt instanced and the fact that their coding does not stop the other team from interfering is also ridiculous, this is a bug and needs fixing.

We were in a situation yesterday when an imp guild had about 5 people sat near the stone, some of our team showed up but as they were there first we left to do other world bosses and after that we returned we had full 16 man they still only had 5 and in that situation I would say the boss belongs to us although some in our guild didnt think it was right, I pointed out the fact they could just camp there for hours without having full team are we supposed to just wait? No.

The issue is it needs to be instanced or it needs to have some mechanic to stop people who are not part of the 16 who are attacking him can interfere. Reduce the respawn time or just remove it completely so this isnt even an issue. Its stupid things like this that make the game not fun!

I also dont see how anyone could be punished for your situation since they will just argue that the game allows them to do it so why not? That needs fixing.

LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.17.2012 , 03:55 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Tirvaak View Post
Once you have sent on these details we will investigate this issue, and take any appropriate action in accordance with our policies and procedures. Please be aware that we are unable to discuss any actions taken against another player’s account and therefore will not inform you of the outcome of our investigation.
Thanks for the quick response.

I have done that, but my post was intended to clarify exactly what your "policies and procedures" are.

Specifically, and independent of any action taken or not taken against specific players in this specific incident, does the behavior I described violate the terms of service, or does it not?

If we are subjected to such behavior in the future, would we be in violation of the TOS to do the same thing that was done to us?
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
The Harbinger

LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.17.2012 , 03:58 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JFerret View Post
I also dont see how anyone could be punished for your situation since they will just argue that the game allows them to do it so why not? That needs fixing.
The game allows you to do many things that violate the Terms of Service, like sending death threats via chat or spamming advertisements to buy credits. The fact that the game allows you to do something obviously does not mean it is permitted. If the game prevented any and all actions which are not allowed, there would be no need for a Terms of Service.
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
The Harbinger

JFerret's Avatar


JFerret
08.17.2012 , 04:07 AM | #6
Ok but bear in mind you are on a different faction to them so technically within this game you are at war with them so is it not part of gameplay to disrupt the other factions actions?

Sending death threats in chat, spamming credit selling cannot be stopped, it is an impossibility, you can report them but thats it. This situation is avoidable if the boss was coded not to allow anyone outside the ops group that clicked the stone cannot interfere, that is not hard to implement but they havent so that is a bug.

So if anyone reported me for doing this that is the argument I would use, the game allows me to do it so who's at fault?

RobNightfall's Avatar


RobNightfall
08.17.2012 , 04:10 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JFerret View Post
Ok but bear in mind you are on a different faction to them so technically within this game you are at war with them so is it not part of gameplay to disrupt the other factions actions?

Sending death threats in chat, spamming credit selling cannot be stopped, it is an impossibility, you can report them but thats it. This situation is avoidable if the boss was coded not to allow anyone outside the ops group that clicked the stone cannot interfere, that is not hard to implement but they havent so that is a bug.
It may be a bug but he's playing on a PvE server. On a PvP server I'd reply with something pithy like, "suck it up, Buttercup," but on a PvE server griefing is a no-no. Even if this is an option available only because it's a bug, it shouldn't happen.
Edited because the devs appear to have fixed at least 80% of the crap that was pissing me off.

JFerret's Avatar


JFerret
08.17.2012 , 04:29 AM | #8
So how do we as a playerbase stop it? We cant, so the only way to fix this situation is for bioware to fix the bug or do you really think people will stop if you ask them to? Give people an oppurtunity to harass the other side they will do it.

I have not once stated this is good/allowed/should be done, I completely agree it should not be done but because of a badly coded boss it can be and Bioware cannot temp/perm ban or give a warning because of a bug that is in the game that they havent fixed for months because all that says to the player base is this is how it should work.

Tirvaak's Avatar


Tirvaak
08.17.2012 , 04:34 AM | #9 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
Thanks for the quick response.

I have done that, but my post was intended to clarify exactly what your "policies and procedures" are.

Specifically, and independent of any action taken or not taken against specific players in this specific incident, does the behavior I described violate the terms of service, or does it not?

If we are subjected to such behavior in the future, would we be in violation of the TOS to do the same thing that was done to us?
Hi LagunaD,

Thank you for sending in the report, this will allow me to get it looked into by our specialist team to determine if this is violation of ToS. I cannot say for certain if this is a breach or not until it is looked into further but I wouldn't suggest to start doing the same thing to other groups.

I know that is not the exact answer you were looking for but at this time it is the only one I can provide. I also want to assure you that this will be looked at as I have already escalated your ticket to our specialist team.

If you ever encounter something like this again the best course of action is to report it immediately so we can investigate it for you.

Thanks.

Tirvaak | Bioware Customer Service - Forum Support

LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.17.2012 , 04:42 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Tirvaak View Post
I know that is not the exact answer you were looking for but at this time it is the only one I can provide. I also want to assure you that this will be looked at as I have already escalated your ticket to our specialist team.

If you ever encounter something like this again the best course of action is to report it immediately so we can investigate it for you.
Thanks for the forthright response.
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
The Harbinger