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*SPOILERS*Why was Revan and so much in kotor retconned

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
*SPOILERS*Why was Revan and so much in kotor retconned

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
08.12.2012 , 03:52 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by Tellenn View Post
I think trying to link the films with the games or even with alot of the surrounding fiction is very difficult as in the films Anarkin, even as Vader, isn't that particularly impressive. Then most weren't as the force was more like a guiding hand that gave force sensitives more of a defining role in the currents and eddies of fate that the force directs.

They certainly weren't meant to be killing entire planets or ripping space craft apart. They were supposed to be a remake of Japanese samurais from movies. With a mixture of eastern bushido/buddist ideals and beliefs.

I never really liked what alot of authors turned the sith and jedi into. Too many awful, cliched sci-fi writers got their hands on the franchise.
This is true. And very disappointing.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MyDarkSunshine's Avatar


MyDarkSunshine
08.12.2012 , 04:06 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Revan shouldn't even be in this game. This game is about a war 300 years after KOTOR and the circumstances that allowed Revan to be in the game should never have happened. They did happen because Bioware and Drew needed some way to fit their love child into the game. This game is about the stories of the individual classes, not Revan. And only Anakin can be described as "Heart of the Force". Anakin was created by The Force. Revan is just some average Jedi who does great things. There is nothing special about him, no matter how much Bioware, Drew or any Forumite Revanites try to make him special. Other than al of that, Revan's character is a tragic one, that leaves me uninterested.
With all due respect - and this isn't aimed at you specifically - the outright dislike of the character from certain parties is almost as intense as the "Revanite"'s love. For someone that likes the character, but isn't deluded as-to his prowess, both are equally irritating.

As much as I thought he should have been left alone by BioWare, I must say that after Maelstrom Prison, and the brief conversation I had with him as a Jedi Knight, I genuinely began to believe we stood a chance at defeating the Emperor. Naturally, the Foundry put a kink in said plans... but it was a nice homage, without replacing the importance of our own character's stories (unless you let it). It also ended his story in a way that fit the 'tragic' character - he succeeded in delaying the war 300 years, but failed in defeating the Emperor.

Tragic characters are interesting. If nothing else, Greek tragedies proved that. If he was as powerful as many fans believe, he would be dull- which is probably where much of the resentment comes from. He is special, and flawed in equal parts, due to personality traits - in that he was willing to do what the Jedi Council refused (defiant), and was willing to give/do everything for that which he wished to protect (sacrificial &morally grey/corruptible). Even if he was merely an "average Jedi" (that tore apart a Dark Council member without breaking a sweat - whether you like the author or not, that is canon), he still "did great things". He was also talented, both with the Force and in other areas - that much is undeniable. More talented than other Jedi/Sith? Debatable, and personally irrelevant in my opinion.

Again, I find it is worth pointing out Revan is not "the heart of the Force" (we're in agreement, this is more for the people that state it - not disagree with it); at no point has he claimed to be such, or pronounced such by another character. The phrase was used in a simile to emphasise the fact Kreia felt him powerful.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tellenn View Post
I think trying to link the films with the games or even with alot of the surrounding fiction is very difficult as in the films Anarkin, even as Vader, isn't that particularly impressive. Then most weren't as the force was more like a guiding hand that gave force sensitives more of a defining role in the currents and eddies of fate that the force directs.
A very good point.
"Who I am is not important- my message is." Revan

Russkiier's Avatar


Russkiier
08.12.2012 , 04:10 PM | #233
I like revan, I think he made the force less of a binary system. That being said, he was not the most powerful force user of all time. He was a great jedi and a very charismatic leader. Having touched both sides of the force (not simultaneously), I believe he gained a greater understanding of the force. I'm more bummed about how Drew retconned Revan's motives for starting the jedi civil war. IIRC in KOTOR 2, it was supposed to be some sort of tempering of the Republic to enable it to stand against the sith empire. It sucks that Revan was just corrupted by the emperor.

I like how Revan and the Exile (OK fine, Meetra Surik) are in this game. I think that it provides some good closure from the ends of the KOTOR games.

Ninnocenti's Avatar


Ninnocenti
08.12.2012 , 04:22 PM | #234
It really doesn't matter what we think. What happened, happened. Revan is really only famous because he saved the republic. You can't go around saying he was nothing special because he was. Very few Jedi are the soul reason the Republic is still around.

Some would say that the Exile (Meetra Surik) would have still saved the republic because in KOTOR II the Republic is still around. (Even when you say "Revan reunited the Sith on Korriban", to Atton Rand on Peragus), but without Revan, who could've held off the Emporer from attacking the Republic when it was still weak?

I don't know if Revan is still alive now, but the reason he was in TOR is because he has a purpose. I'm just a trooper and don't know what happens on the Empire side, but Revan must have an affect on their side too. So stop hating on Revan because he shaped TOR into what it is now.
A true soldier (wether trooper, smuggler, or jedi) has the power to triumph over all. He or she just needs to remember what they're fighting for.

Tellenn's Avatar


Tellenn
08.12.2012 , 04:27 PM | #235
A greater understanding of the force is where true power should lie. The force was about spirituality, reality and the inner workings of life and the universe. That revan wasn't super powerful, his main power as a visionary and seeing the many strands of the outcomes of his and others decisions made him far truer to the original ideals of the films. That his main legacy was his teaching and exploration of the depths of the force is also more true compared to what alot of writers have tried to shoehorn the ip into. Too many mass effect writers working on a project that has far more depth that they were used to.

I also liked Revans original reasons for Fighting the mandalorians. Sensing the coming threat and preparing. Yoda would perhaps have handled it differently but they both have the most powerful of all powers foresight. Which is why I would wonder if with such a gift Revan would sacrifice himself twice if he already saw the multiple possible outcomes? Again depends on the writers. Good ones would be using it as a plot point, but since ME biowares havent really been on good form.

Ninnocenti's Avatar


Ninnocenti
08.12.2012 , 05:07 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by Tellenn View Post
A greater understanding of the force is where true power should lie. The force was about spirituality, reality and the inner workings of life and the universe. That revan wasn't super powerful, his main power as a visionary and seeing the many strands of the outcomes of his and others decisions made him far truer to the original ideals of the films. That his main legacy was his teaching and exploration of the depths of the force is also more true compared to what alot of writers have tried to shoehorn the ip into. Too many mass effect writers working on a project that has far more depth that they were used to.

I also liked Revans original reasons for Fighting the mandalorians. Sensing the coming threat and preparing. Yoda would perhaps have handled it differently but they both have the most powerful of all powers foresight. Which is why I would wonder if with such a gift Revan would sacrifice himself twice if he already saw the multiple possible outcomes? Again depends on the writers. Good ones would be using it as a plot point, but since ME biowares havent really been on good form.
That was beautiful :,) *sniff*
A true soldier (wether trooper, smuggler, or jedi) has the power to triumph over all. He or she just needs to remember what they're fighting for.

Tellenn's Avatar


Tellenn
08.12.2012 , 05:20 PM | #237
...and Revan was never light side. If he did become one with the force through sacrifice and redemption then his death would have to have a meaning or the writers just don't understand how it works.

Also it cant escape me how ironic it is to see people in a thread discussing the force have dislike for a fictional character. Thats the path to the fictional dark side.

Tahrl's Avatar


Tahrl
08.12.2012 , 07:27 PM | #238
Im gonna be lazy and not read my way through the whole thread.

Quote:
Does new bioware really hate Obsidian or something? They've trivialized Revan, Kreia, hk-47

*SPOILERS*


A handful of mid level characters can kill ONE OF THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS IN THE GAME WHO MASTERED BOTH SIDES OF THE FORCE, DESTROYED THE MANDALORIANS AND DEFEATED THE SITH.

And apparently following the events of kotor Revan was simply made the emperors chump, AGAIN?

Seriously, does nobody find a problem with this terrible and obviously agenda filled writing to retcon everything kotor 2 and Revan?
Revan was originally Biowares character. Obsidian 'borrowed' him as it were. By letting you kill Revan, that is not a shot at Obsidian. Plus, the reason they let you do it is to show how damn powerful your character is. Your Sith Warrior is not as powerful as Revan. Try solo him. It won't work. But together, the BEST Sith Warrior, the BEST Sith Inquisitor etc etc were able to overcome Revan after a prolonged conflict. Honestly, he might not even be dead, You know what they say about the lack of a body...

As for trivializing HK-47 and Kreia, well, Ive never seen the deal with Kreia anyway. She never seemed to be that exceptionally powerful. And again, HK-47 was originally made by Bioware, not Obsidian. And as for his defeat, see Revan. If those four can over-power him, they can over-power HK. Who still manages to put up a decent fight. Plus, his legacy lives on in HK-51. Oh! And he somehow survives being dissasembled. Twice.

He turned up in SWG, his programming having been uploaded in a crashed Republic Thranta-class Warhship. A bunch of spacers blithely follow his instructions and give him a brand spanking new body and a droid factory, from which he promply builds an army. Those same Spacers then defeat his army, battle HK and presumably kill him. It turns out he survives and is somewhere, galavanting around during the GCW era. Long-story short, that droid is practically indestructable.
"Weakling! You will never reach your potential if you falter at the slightest obstacle. Beyond that wall lies your destiny. Beyond that wall lies the full power of the dark side. If you do not have the strength to reach it, then you do not deserve to become a Sith sorcerer!"

Dearam's Avatar


Dearam
04.06.2013 , 09:40 AM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by Votum View Post
How did Luke become the most powerful Jedi ever after a few years?

The force is weird, and you are the new king per your story
Luke is not and was not and will never be the most powerful jedi ever.. why? cause he was the last one -.-

Just the fact that Revan was made the emperors ***** for 300 years is what seems retarded to me. Revan was the character you played in the game that the universe of TOR is based upon. He did so much hype **** and discovered all the biggest things. In Kotor 2 Revan was still the talk of everything and was made out to be the hypest baddas in existence. Every single person in that game had uber respect for Revan and spoke about him as if he was a god.

He had apparently traveled deep into the unknown regions in order to face some unknown threat.

Simply the fact that there would be ANY single enemy more powerful is beyond me. And when they just showed his face right off the bat and had him be the equivalent of a sniveling emo ***** then ofc i lose every drop of faith in the makers of this game. I really regret the fact that i even did this flashpoint just cause i did not want to see my fav sith lord getting beaten by a group of low level newbs.

What also buggs my balls is that now the people who have not previously played KOTOR1 or 2 will get the impression that Revan was a mediocre forgettable boss in a very easy flashpoint. -.- GOD THIS IS MAKING ME SO ANNOYED I JUST WANT TO FART IN THE FACE OF WHOEVER DESIGNED THIS!!!

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.06.2013 , 12:35 PM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by Dearam View Post
Luke is not and was not and will never be the most powerful jedi ever.. why? cause he was the last one -.-
Except you know....Luke is the most powerful jedi ever.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.