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BIS Relics


BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.09.2012 , 03:31 AM | #11
I roll with the BH (not quite War Hero yet, PvP is always a grind to me) Power relic and the Rakata clicky Power Relic (I might grind out the Campaign one, but my Sent is now just my alt seeing as how back in April BW decided that they were going to require two tanks for current content) and my dps has pretty much sky-rocketed over the Proc relic. I'm parsing 1450 dps right now on the fleet dummy with all the server lag in 11/14 rakata gear, Chest and Implants are my only BH gear, and that's not even augmented or properly itemized. As compared to the barely 1300 I'd get with the proc relic.

This is in Combat spec btw.
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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.09.2012 , 06:34 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
I roll with the BH (not quite War Hero yet, PvP is always a grind to me) Power relic and the Rakata clicky Power Relic (I might grind out the Campaign one, but my Sent is now just my alt seeing as how back in April BW decided that they were going to require two tanks for current content) and my dps has pretty much sky-rocketed over the Proc relic. I'm parsing 1450 dps right now on the fleet dummy with all the server lag in 11/14 rakata gear, Chest and Implants are my only BH gear, and that's not even augmented or properly itemized. As compared to the barely 1300 I'd get with the proc relic.

This is in Combat spec btw.
Not trying to be snarky, but a 150 DPS swing from a single relic seems implausible. How many tests did you do? What is the standard deviation of the two DPS values you measured?

The DPS of the proc relics is pretty easy to measure/estimate. Also, the proc relics benefit from your critical chance and critical multiplier, but not from weapon or bonus damage. It appears that some are force and some are tech, although the item itself doesn't indicate this. Based on the proc chance, ICD and my average rate of attacks, the Rakata (168 tooltip) internal damage relic adds about 30 DPS for me. The corresponding Campaign relic would add about 33 DPS. With my current gear (almost full BH, with one Campaign hilt), this is about +2.2 or 2.5%, respectively.

The static +Power PvP relics are also pretty easy to analyze. The Recruit (+93) adds about +1.9%. The BM (+103) adds about +2.1%, the WH (+113) adds about 2.3%, and the +123 (not sure if in-game - I don't PvP) adds about 2.5%. These numbers are based on the exact damage formulas for each ability, and the relative damage done by each ability in my parses on the training dummy.

Using the same method, the stats of the Matrix Cube add about 2.0%.

The clicky is a bit more complicated, since you can control it. Worst case is to use it on cooldown, which means +310 Power (+6.3% with my gear) 1/6 of the time, or +1.1% on average for a very long fight. It is hard to see how selective use could more than double its relative benefit, although depending on the length of the fight, the uptime could be more than 1/6 (e.g. in a fight that lasts 2m20s, it is up 28.6% of the time, for a 1.8% overall damage increase; in a 5m fight, it is up 20% of the time, for a 1.3% overall damage increase, etc). Situationally, a large increase in damage for a short period of time may be more valuable than a constant increase, even if the constant increase is larger over the whole fight (which is why clickies have been banished from PvP...)

In summary, the difference between the various relics for overall average DPS appears practically negligible, and an 11.5% increase in DPS by changing from one to another seems hard to credit.
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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.10.2012 , 01:59 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
The clicky is a bit more complicated, since you can control it. Worst case is to use it on cooldown, which means +310 Power (+6.3% with my gear) 1/6 of the time, or +1.1% on average for a very long fight. It is hard to see how selective use could more than double its relative benefit, although depending on the length of the fight, the uptime could be more than 1/6 (e.g. in a fight that lasts 2m20s, it is up 28.6% of the time, for a 1.8% overall damage increase; in a 5m fight, it is up 20% of the time, for a 1.3% overall damage increase, etc). Situationally, a large increase in damage for a short period of time may be more valuable than a constant increase, even if the constant increase is larger over the whole fight (which is why clickies have been banished from PvP...)
My memory failed me on this one, I thought the buff was for 20 seconds, but it is 30, which brings it more in line with the other relics:

+6.3% for 1/4 of the time is +1.575% worst case, or +1.89% in a 5 minute fight. By stacking with Inspiration, Zen, etc, it is probably over +2%, quite close to the others.
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
08.10.2012 , 02:58 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
My memory failed me on this one, I thought the buff was for 20 seconds, but it is 30, which brings it more in line with the other relics:

+6.3% for 1/4 of the time is +1.575% worst case, or +1.89% in a 5 minute fight. By stacking with Inspiration, Zen, etc, it is probably over +2%, quite close to the others.

But wouldn't the constant power relics also benefit from Inspiration/Zen? (I don't know if the damage proc relics are affected by inspiration. You mentioned earlier that they aren't affected by Bonus Damage or Force Bonus Damage).
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.10.2012 , 04:47 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
But wouldn't the constant power relics also benefit from Inspiration/Zen? (I don't know if the damage proc relics are affected by inspiration.
Yes, but to a lesser degree.

Take a simplified example, suppose one relic gives a +4% passive bonus to base damage all the time, and another gives a +16% clicky bonus to base damage for 15 seconds every minute (1/4 of the time). On average (and in isolation), these both correspond to a 4% bonus.

Now combine these with an independent, Inspiration-like buff that increases all damage by 25% for 15 seconds every minute. (These aren't real bonuses for relics/buffs, but chosen so the results come out to be round numbers).

For the passive bonus relic, the overall increase will be +4% 3/4's of the time, and +5% 1/4 of the time (when the other buff is active). So the overall increase will be +4.25%.

For the clicky relic, if you stack the two buffs, then it is +20% 1/4 of the time, or +5% overall.
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BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.12.2012 , 02:02 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
Not trying to be snarky, but a 150 DPS swing from a single relic seems implausible. How many tests did you do? What is the standard deviation of the two DPS values you measured?
Right it does sound a bit extreme after I think about it, while I did use two separate Relics (Proc on one parse and Static on the other). There are probably several variables that I changed to affect the damage increase, talents (adding accuracy), and I think standing behind the dummy helped too, I noticed fewer and fewer dodges from the dummy. I'll do some parsing again today, same spec, positioning, just different relics and post links.
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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.12.2012 , 03:59 PM | #17
My understanding is that avoidance does not depend on position. Certainly Jedi player characters happily deflect blaster shots from behind. If reduced avoidance from behind could be documented, it would be very interesting. I will try to test next time I'm at the dummy.

On the other hand, today I witnessed what seemed to be a dramatic difference in parses due to lag. I was testing in a high-population instance of Republic Fleet (~250 players), and getting consistently low numbers in half a dozen 5-10 minute parses. I couldn't figure out why my numbers were so low. I then switched to another instance that only had 10 people, and with no other changes to gear, buffs, or rotation, my DPS went up by over 100 points (from high 1500's to 1700). I attribute this to lag, since while on the high-pop instance, my abilities were noticeably hitching or being delayed.

Shouldn't affect comparing two relics one after another, but for tests spread hours or days apart, the server conditions may be more important than any gear...
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
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BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.12.2012 , 05:57 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
My understanding is that avoidance does not depend on position. Certainly Jedi player characters happily deflect blaster shots from behind. If reduced avoidance from behind could be documented, it would be very interesting. I will try to test next time I'm at the dummy.

On the other hand, today I witnessed what seemed to be a dramatic difference in parses due to lag. I was testing in a high-population instance of Republic Fleet (~250 players), and getting consistently low numbers in half a dozen 5-10 minute parses. I couldn't figure out why my numbers were so low. I then switched to another instance that only had 10 people, and with no other changes to gear, buffs, or rotation, my DPS went up by over 100 points (from high 1500's to 1700). I attribute this to lag, since while on the high-pop instance, my abilities were noticeably hitching or being delayed.

Shouldn't affect comparing two relics one after another, but for tests spread hours or days apart, the server conditions may be more important than any gear...
You just had to mention server lag... I did one parse with the BM relic, did about 1600 EDPS (I got a few upgrades + 2 more augments + Nightmare Pilgrim buff) and when i went to parse with the Proc relic the server lag made in unplayable... I'll try again later in the week.
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AidanLightwalker's Avatar


AidanLightwalker
08.12.2012 , 07:32 PM | #19
For optimal parses, I find the training dummy on your ship works best. Don't quote me for sure but I think, In my opinion, if you fly your ship over a less populated planet, say Quesh and test there. I ussually have no lag at all there. Get the ops dummy for your ship to btw
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BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.12.2012 , 07:43 PM | #20
I would but I'm poor from too many alts.
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