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the jedi consular vs the sith inquisitor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
the jedi consular vs the sith inquisitor

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.06.2012 , 12:35 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
You kinda just demonstrated that it can't do more.

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Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
That was because the SI took the shortcut to power, instead of choosing a much longer road, she was still powerful enough to do things that Sith Lords for generations couldn't do, like defeat Khem Val.

And Khem Val himself states that the Sith Inquisitor is the natural successor to Tulak Hord.
Yeah, but if you take a shortcut, and the way is closed right before the end, you have to go back and take the long way, while someone who took the long way is already there.

If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
08.06.2012 , 01:43 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Yeah, but if you take a shortcut, and the way is closed right before the end, you have to go back and take the long way, while someone who took the long way is already there.

If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.
Ah but the SI doesn't need to, you see, the SI still learns and grows in her own time right up towards the end of the story, Zash notes it.

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Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
08.06.2012 , 04:03 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
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Yes, Zenith is TOTALLY an expert on arcane force rituals and we should take his word on it. /sarcasm. But seriously, that's your argument? Zenith, or maybe the Consular (who is probably just making some BS guess like doctors do).

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If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.
The ghosts don't give combat experience. In point of fact, the inquisitor has a heck of a lot more combat experience fighting powerful force-users than the consular, with or without ghosts. Heck, the inquisitor takes out a Darth before leaving DK or getting any ghosts. She used a trick, yes, but that's war.
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Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.06.2012 , 04:32 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
Yes, Zenith is TOTALLY an expert on arcane force rituals and we should take his word on it. /sarcasm. But seriously, that's your argument? Zenith, or maybe the Consular (who is probably just making some BS guess like doctors do).

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The ghosts don't give combat experience. In point of fact, the inquisitor has a heck of a lot more combat experience fighting powerful force-users than the consular, with or without ghosts. Heck, the inquisitor takes out a Darth before leaving DK or getting any ghosts. She used a trick, yes, but that's war.

My thesis: The ritual can block any kind of DS mind control/ DS influence of one person over the other. It was created for the plague, but the consular also used it to counter possession and it would also have worked if the other person was mind controlled by a Sith.

Your thesis: The same, but only if it is connected to Morrhage.

I doubt that the ritual was created to counter a specific person, but to counter a specific phenomenon. The Consular then expands it's use.

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And Zenith is of course no expert of Force rituals, but he knows about the effects of torture. Rewatched it and have the exact wording:

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So the Consular assumes the ritual can heal/help "people driven mad by darkness". But it also works against possession. So he could at least try it against the Inquisitor, there is a chance it might cut the connections to the ghosts as well. But since he can only do it after the fight, it doesn't matter for the confrontation.


But when we're that much into detail: What do the ghosts do?

I know they don't give combat experience, but I thought the when the inquisitor is fighting, he uses their power. If not, the only thing they can do is keep you alive when you're dead and explode you in lightning.


Oh, by the way, the consular takes down a Jedi Master without tricks on Coruscant. And Taris. And Nar Shadda. And...


Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Ah but the SI doesn't need to, you see, the SI still learns and grows in her own time right up towards the end of the story, Zash notes it.

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Yeah, but my point was that without the ghosts, he would have to adapt. But since the Jedi Consular can't shield before the fight, it's kind of irrelevant.

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"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

DarthOmeges's Avatar


DarthOmeges
08.06.2012 , 11:42 PM | #45
The jedi consular may be directly stated as one of the most powerful force users but if you've played through the Inquisitor story you would recall...
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Oh! and there's the Ghosts of course!

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
08.07.2012 , 12:15 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
My thesis: The ritual can block any kind of DS mind control/ DS influence of one person over the other. It was created for the plague, but the consular also used it to counter possession and it would also have worked if the other person was mind controlled by a Sith.

Your thesis: The same, but only if it is connected to Morrhage.
That's not my thesis. I don't have a thesis. I'm going off what the game tells you: it's a specific ritual ("shielding") used to counter another specific ritual ("Morrhage's plague"). It severs the link between the plaguemaster and victim. Period. End of story. There's 0 evidence it can do anything more. The consular tried to uses it for something else, and it didn't work, and there's no evidence it would have worked. There is no case where it's used to counter possession, unless you want to say the plague itself is possession.

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It's really very simple. I don't know why you're trying to make the shielding ritual into something it's not.

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I doubt that the ritual was created to counter a specific person, but to counter a specific phenomenon. The Consular then expands it's use.
Well, except for the fact that there's no instance of this phenomenon occurring without Morrhage's control. But whatever. I'm sure that's not relevant. You keep on saying untrue things. The consular failed to expand its use. Saying "well it would have worked!" is nothing more than speculation without support, and I find it irritating that you keep on insisting on this point. That particular piece of evidence is not in your favor.

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So the Consular assumes the ritual can heal/help "people driven mad by darkness". But it also works against possession. So he could at least try it against the Inquisitor, there is a chance it might cut the connections to the ghosts as well. But since he can only do it after the fight, it doesn't matter for the confrontation.
Ok... so you're insisting on this possession angle despite the fact that that's not how the consular describes it? Can you find any place where this ritual is described as an exorcism type deal?

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Oh, by the way, the consular takes down a Jedi Master without tricks on Coruscant. And Taris. And Nar Shadda. And...
Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that. Look, let me put it this way.

Spoiler
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

Rabbarabba's Avatar


Rabbarabba
08.07.2012 , 12:56 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that.

And darths are?

Please, explain how a darth is automatically so much more powerful than a jedi master?

Both are 'promoted' to their rank by different standards, its not possible to compare strength without knowing who specifically is involved.


All the jedi masters you fight as a consular, are all more experienced than you, presumed stronger than you, have vastly more knowledge and are all incredibly important in the 'galactic war'. Darth skotia was some random nobody who happened to be mostly machine...no back story on him at all outside of being Zash's rival.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.07.2012 , 08:02 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
That's not my thesis. I don't have a thesis. I'm going off what the game tells you:
No, you are going beyond what the game tells you.

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it's a specific ritual ("shielding") used to counter another specific ritual ("Morrhage's plague"). It severs the link between the plaguemaster and victim.
And because it was created for that, you assume that it can't do anything more at all and can't be used in any other situation. The game does say it is the only counter for Morrhage plage, it does not say that it can do nothing more than countering Morrhage's plague. That's your thesis.

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Period. End of story. There's 0 evidence it can do anything more.
There is, if the control of Morrhage over Parkanas was different to the plague. I'll go deeper into that later.

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The consular tried to uses it for something else, and it didn't work, and there's no evidence it would have worked.
But he gave it a try and the most reason most likely was not connected to the ritual, but to the patient. So the only evidence we have is that the consular had the option to think it would work. Which says of course nothing about the ritual at all. It might have worked or it might not have worked. If he knew that it was of use only against Morrhage, he wouldn't have tried it.

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There is no case where it's used to counter possession, unless you want to say the plague itself is possession.
The point I'm trying to make the whole time is that having a ghost in your body that controls your actions is different to having your mind gradually affected from the distance. One is possession, the other is (as the Noeticons state), a specific form of mind control.

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It's really very simple. I don't know why you're trying to make the shielding ritual into something it's not.
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Well, except for the fact that there's no instance of this phenomenon occurring without Morrhage's control. But whatever. I'm sure that's not relevant. You keep on saying untrue things. The consular failed to expand its use. Saying "well it would have worked!" is nothing more than speculation without support, and I find it irritating that you keep on insisting on this point. That particular piece of evidence is not in your favor.
I'm trying to explain better what I want to say. The LS consular succeeded to expand it. See above and below.

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Not true.

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Ok... so you're insisting on this possession angle despite the fact that that's not how the consular describes it? Can you find any place where this ritual is described as an exorcism type deal?
I can find a place where it is used as an exorcism type deal. On Vivicar's ship.

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Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that. Look, let me put it this way.

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Doesn't change the fact that the Inquisitor needad lots of preparation against Skotia and the Consular wasn't even prepared to fight against Yuon. And for more comparison: On Alderaan the Inquisitor fights against Knights, while the Jedi Consular fights against a Master.

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"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Amien's Avatar


Amien
08.07.2012 , 08:29 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabbarabba View Post
And darths are?

Please, explain how a darth is automatically so much more powerful than a jedi master?

Both are 'promoted' to their rank by different standards, its not possible to compare strength without knowing who specifically is involved.


All the jedi masters you fight as a consular, are all more experienced than you, presumed stronger than you, have vastly more knowledge and are all incredibly important in the 'galactic war'. Darth skotia was some random nobody who happened to be mostly machine...no back story on him at all outside of being Zash's rival.
A Darth has to kill his master to achieve his rank. THEN they have to continually defend his position, lest risk being permanently evicted. Masters don't have to worry about rivals stabbing you in the back and are in a definite sense of comfort "at home" where as the Sith cannot afford to do that.
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can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.
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Oflipper's Avatar


Oflipper
10.08.2013 , 05:21 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by GraceandDanger View Post
I don't know, I think the SI could give the Consular a run for their money, if you're just talking raw power in the force.
The SI is probably the weakest in the force. To make up for this he cheats. He goes around absorbing other sith's energy and claiming it as his own.