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Gear: Pvp Vs Pve


Codek's Avatar


Codek
08.03.2012 , 01:17 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
Hmm. Interesting. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I get two vastly different results depending on enemy dps vs friendly heals.

My current PvE gear gets me 20k hp and 4853 armor for a total of 31% damage reduction.
My Recruit gear gets me 13k hp and 4332 armor for 28% damage reduction + 15% pvp damage reduction

Let's say I'm being focused by 2 people, each doing 1000 dps and being healed by a third for 1000 hps.

2000 dps - 31% damage reduction = 1380 dps - 1000 hps = 380 dps
20,000k / 380dps = 52 seconds to die

2000 dps - 43% damage reduction = 1140 dps - 1100 hps (10% expertise healing boost) = 40 dps
13,000k / 40dps = 325 seconds to die

If we add a third 1000 dps focusing fire, it looks like this:
3000 dps - 31% = 2070 dps - 1000 hps = 1070 dps
20,000 / 1070 = 19 seconds to die

3000 dps - 43% damage reduction = 1710 dps - 1100 hps = 610 dps
13,000 / 610 = 21 seconds to die

Correct me if my math is off here, but it seems that the more dps I'm taking (compared to healing) the less effective my Recruit gear will be relative to my PvE gear.
Your looking at it from a strange direction. First you should forget about the 1v1 and 2v1 conjecture because that really had nothing to do with it. The big thing is how taking less damage = less healing required from the healers

It's all based of the fact that your basically trading HP for damage reduction, so from the healers point of view, that 5k hit becomes a 4k hit which is less healing needed in general. As long as the healer can keep you up, your max HP is irrelevant so an overall gain in survival is obtained.

Going back to the 2v1 issue, having 2 people hitting for 5k means the healers resources are being spent much faster then if you are taking 4k hits from both enemies.


This of course is assuming that a healer will actually strain them self out to keep you alive for a long period of time. If no such individual is around, then your max HP becomes a factor again.
~Codek

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.03.2012 , 02:17 PM | #22
^^^

This is a good point, and sorry to derail this thread which was mainly looking at taking PvP gear into a PvE situation.

As it currently stands, if I end up in a premade I'll ask what they prefer and switch gear accordingly. Otherwise, I'll probably just grind BM gear with my current setup replacing as I go along.

Apeth's Avatar


Apeth
08.04.2012 , 03:11 AM | #23
Your forgetting the set bonuses.

I was full bm and doing hm fps fine but the set bonus from now having columi makes a big difference in pve I can only talk from infil shadow perspective though
Gaberiel - 55 - Shadow . Gabe-riel 55 Mara ,Xapeth - 55 - Scoundrel . Jeracho - 55 - Sniper. Constintine - 55 - Merc. A'peth - 55 -Vanguard. Jerecho - 55 - Sentinal. Azekeal - 55- sage. - Founder of SWTOR
The Hexander Legacy.

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
08.04.2012 , 08:49 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
Your looking at it from a strange direction. First you should forget about the 1v1 and 2v1 conjecture because that really had nothing to do with it. The big thing is how taking less damage = less healing required from the healers

It's all based of the fact that your basically trading HP for damage reduction, so from the healers point of view, that 5k hit becomes a 4k hit which is less healing needed in general. As long as the healer can keep you up, your max HP is irrelevant so an overall gain in survival is obtained.

Going back to the 2v1 issue, having 2 people hitting for 5k means the healers resources are being spent much faster then if you are taking 4k hits from both enemies.


This of course is assuming that a healer will actually strain them self out to keep you alive for a long period of time. If no such individual is around, then your max HP becomes a factor again.
If the OP is going to be solo queueing, half the time he won't have a healer anyway so your point is situational at best.

I wouldn't bother with Recruit gear if you have Rakata or Black Hole. Recruit is BAD. PVE Gear is BAD. You're probably not going to be effective in either gear, (especially if you're new to PVP).

People like to keep beating this topic to death and ignore the fact that neither set of gear is very good.

Full BM can take as little as 2 days to get depending on your play time. Even casual players can get it done in a week or two.

You're going to die a lot until then either way.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Racter's Avatar


Racter
08.05.2012 , 03:09 PM | #25
PVP gear is fine for most of the PVE content in the game. I did a HM LI on my Sent (missing two pieces of WH, all augs) and had some Rakata/some BH geared Sentinel raging at me for being there in PVP gear... His bonus damage was over 100 less than mine, his crit was enormously too high (almost 40%), and his surge was over 10% less than mine. I'm assuming he either had no clue where his stats needed to be/was using stock gear/both. He had a whopping 1800 more health than me. Sure, his mainstat was higher, but that's irrelvant when you look at his actual important stats. I had absolutely no trouble tanking all the HM FPs (yes, including LI, it's not hard if you know the fights) in BM gear on my Jugg and I will probably tank an op or two this week. Just haven't cared about PVE until recently.

The difference between BM and the equivalent level PVE gear is largely just an epic mainstat aug. I believe WH to Campaign/BH is bigger but overall probably not that big of a deal, either. No sense whining about it.

adam_wan's Avatar


adam_wan
09.02.2012 , 10:29 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I asked about this on the PvP forums and didn't get an adequate answer.

Are you claiming this because you know for sure? Or you just think so?

I've been thinking about getting into PvP. When I swap my PvE gear for recruit I lose 35% of my health and 25% of my dps. My instinct is to keep my PvE gear and grind Battlemaster and don't even bother with Recruit. I've had 3 people disagree with me, but nobody has given any concrete explanation.

Can you?
Experimented with this myself. I'm almost full augmented black hole for pve and complete augmented war hero for pvp. I put on all my black hole gear (21k hp, 2200 willpower) and entered a warzone. I thought I got melted fast with my war hero gear! It was so much worse with black hole. I know this isn't a campaign vs recruit comparison but it still goes to show how fast you can melt in PVP even with high end gear on. Go with the recruit gear. At least then your healers will take the time to try to keep you alive. When I see a zero expertise, 25k anything in my warzones I don't bother wasting my force to heal them.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
09.02.2012 , 12:48 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Corsairr View Post
Ok first i would just like to say i am very tired of hearing the same old same old, Pvp gear is fine in pve, but pve is not ok in pvp. ok i get it, expertise is king in pvp. but at the same time im geting tired of the same people then bringing pvp gear to a ops. they should make it so that pvp gear is only good in pvp. otherwise why shouldn't pve be ok for pvp? sure its a quick easy set to get. but its not the point. the gear is made for one thing or the other, it shouldnt then be accepctable to work in the other, unless its both capable. ./end rant. and fyi i am not pvping in pve gear nor pveing in pvp gear. just wish the devs would fix it.
My pvp gear on my healer is augged and optimized battlemaster (with a WH relic, implant and earpiece; also, all enhancements are war hero grade, borrowed from a different toon), in tionese shells for the set bonus, plus belts and bracers with 25 armoring and pvp mods (which are identical to 25 grade pve mods, apart from that there's bonus expertise). I also have a set of stock rakata (with columi implants and earpiece). The augged, optimized PvP set provides better healing output in pve than the rakata set with it's garbage default optimization. So, even though I use the rakata set for non-guild run ops, that's only because people like you would complain. The pvp set is better for pve in my case than pve gear.

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
09.02.2012 , 01:56 PM | #28
BM or WH PvP gear can be used for *MOST* pve endgame content. Just not all. I Tanked in BM gear for most of my hard modes and skipped over the tionese set until I started adding in/subbing a few Columi/Campaign pieces. But even before I started getting enough comms/crystals for Columi gear I was augmenting my WH and BM gear to make it PVE worthy. What I couldn't get on my own I made, like the Artifice Relics you can make.

If you don't PVP then the Tionese gear is ok to wear, otherwise BM gear is waayyyy better. However, why would you go into a WZ wearing full Campaign or full Rakata gear? That gear does not have the one stat needed to be viable in pvp which is expertise. Without expertise, you're dying moments from leaving your safe areas. Even if you have 900 Expertise chances are you can go down quickly.

Then you look at the fact that the end content PVE gear gives you stats that are almost useless to you in most pve situations anyway. I would say though that if you can get the PVE gear, then you should be going for it due to the set bonuses it gives you.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

Brutal's Avatar


Brutal
09.02.2012 , 02:56 PM | #29
im bh /rakata boutyhunter healer for pve i would take any one in tionesie/.columi over any one with wh gear im tired of all the *****s moawning pvp is good for pve pve is no good for pvp my bh gear gives me over 7k more hp dmg and armore way beter then recrute gear as for pve if i do randoms ops or fp and have bloke in bm gear i would not heal him **** off get pve gear then come with us one simple reson pve guy will have much more expirance in end game content

plus i would love to see full grup of guys in battlemaster gear runing nightmere kp under 2 h

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
09.02.2012 , 03:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Brutal View Post
im bh /rakata boutyhunter healer for pve i would take any one in tionesie/.columi over any one with wh gear im tired of all the *****s moawning pvp is good for pve pve is no good for pvp my bh gear gives me over 7k more hp dmg and armore way beter then recrute gear as for pve if i do randoms ops or fp and have bloke in bm gear i would not heal him **** off get pve gear then come with us one simple reson pve guy will have much more expirance in end game content

plus i would love to see full grup of guys in battlemaster gear runing nightmere kp under 2 h
I don't believe anyone is delusional enough to think they could run NM KP at ALL in BM or WH gear. If you are in pvp gear still, you probably should only be running T1 HM's. Maybe some of the easier T2 HMs but Kaon Under Siege, you should be at least partly in Columi gear if not full Columi.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)