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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
07.30.2012 , 09:38 PM | #541
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
The problem with PCsexual characters is that quite often, their sexuality is left out as a consideration of their past history and experiences (because PCsexuals don't actually have their own sexuality, they merely react to/reflect the PC's sexuality). This is bad writing and/or poor character design, IMHO.
I don't see it that way. I don't think conversations about former lovers is that important in companion's characterization, if at all. How those became so so important that the lack of them automatically warrants them the califications of "bad writing" ? No offense, but this just strike me as the player's need of "proof" for labels they want to stamp on companions. For me, those labels aren't needed, at all.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
07.30.2012 , 09:49 PM | #542
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
For me, those labels aren't needed, at all.
While I can't point at any one thing as proof I've heard that such labels may very well not even exist in Star Wars; their mindset might not even consider them (which is a believable state if one sexuality is considered no more or less normal than any other).
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Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
07.31.2012 , 02:30 AM | #543
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
I don't see it that way. I don't think conversations about former lovers is that important in companion's characterization, if at all. How those became so so important that the lack of them automatically warrants them the califications of "bad writing" ? No offense, but this just strike me as the player's need of "proof" for labels they want to stamp on companions. For me, those labels aren't needed, at all.
I think you missed the point. There is QUITE a difference between a character that merely reflects the PCs sexuality, thus their (non-discrete) sexuality plays no role in their personality or background, and a character that has their own sexuality (which may or may not be explicitly stated), which has an influence on their background and personality.

Am I talking about labels? No, because labels are subjective and may not actually reflect a person's sexuality accurately. Nevertheless, people have sexualities (and yes, asexual is a sexuality), even if they can't be described in a simple/single word, and that sexuality influences just about every interaction with other people (regardless of gender), whether or not they're aware of it.
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Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
07.31.2012 , 09:25 AM | #544
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
I think you missed the point. There is QUITE a difference between a character that merely reflects the PCs sexuality, thus their (non-discrete) sexuality plays no role in their personality or background, and a character that has their own sexuality (which may or may not be explicitly stated), which has an influence on their background and personality.
Right, there's a difference between Kaliyo and Ensign Temple for example. With Kaliyo, an important part of her characterization involves her troubled relationships with people, including romantic partners.

However, when a character's sexuality isn't a part of their characterization (Temple) I don't see the benefit of making them exclusive and not going the PC-sexual route.

If they want to make a character where sexuality is important to their character arc (i.e., if they wanted to explore issues with homosexuality in the SW universe...if there are issues with it) then they would need an exclusively homosexual character. Though, if they do that too much I couldn't take it seriously.

It seems to me that most of the current OGRA are PC-sexual as it is....they don't show indications of their heterosexuality beyond interacting with the opposite sex PC. Doc and Kaliyo seem to be the only exception I can think of atm, but I haven't played all the class stories.
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Infir's Avatar


Infir
07.31.2012 , 09:51 AM | #545
I would argue that sexuality only informs one's personality where it changes one's life experience. For instance, in a world where homosexuality is not stigmatized, growing up gay would arguably be no different than growing up straight. A companion with a backstory involving an old boyfriend could as easily have had an old girlfriend, and only that single term need be adjusted.

Our perception of a character might change based on their sexuality, but their own perception, or that of other characters, might not.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
07.31.2012 , 10:36 AM | #546
Quote: Originally Posted by Infir View Post
A companion with a backstory involving an old boyfriend could as easily have had an old girlfriend, and only that single term need be adjusted.
One of the primary points Zandilar is making, though (correct me if I'm wrong here, Zandilar) is that it's not just a matter of backstory but also of ongoing interaction. Where the character normally wouldn't respond to someone with interest because they're not interested in that gender they would be more likely to if that gender were suddenly their flavour, so to speak.

Making Kira into a bisexual woman would, for example, not just be a matter of changing how she reacts to the female PC but also, in theory, every significant female NPC in the game. That means a lot more in the way of dialogue changes.

That is, if I'm not wrong, one of Zandilar's main points and (I suspect) the main one that's getting missed.
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Infir's Avatar


Infir
07.31.2012 , 11:31 AM | #547
Except that being inclined romantically toward a certain gender does not mean that that you flirt with or are interested in everyone of that gender. How often do companions show romantic interest in other NPCs at all? I don't think I've ever encountered that.
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
07.31.2012 , 11:55 AM | #548
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Making Kira into a bisexual woman would, for example, not just be a matter of changing how she reacts to the female PC but also, in theory, every significant female NPC in the game. That means a lot more in the way of dialogue changes.
I think it depends on the character/female NPC.

As of today, Kira doesn't show interest in any male NPC, so I don't know why she'd have to start flirting with every female NPC if they opened her romance up to a female. As I mentioned before, I (as a female Jedi Knight) know nothing about her sexual preferences (she could be wookiesexual for all I know).

Using my fave example, Kaliyo, now it would make more sense to add them in for her character arc since she can be a flirt....heck, I think she was kinda flirting with Ensign Temple when I recruited her XD
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KidRaid's Avatar


KidRaid
07.31.2012 , 12:12 PM | #549
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post

Using my fave example, Kaliyo, now it would make more sense to add them in for her character arc since she can be a flirt....heck, I think she was kinda flirting with Ensign Temple when I recruited her XD
And actually by that argument it sometimes seems that those telltale reactions/informations have already somewhat been put in the game . ( This has been discussed here before ) Kaliyo being a prime example both in her overall story and in other reactions she has like that.

But I would also point out how Dorne reacts verytime my female trooper flirts . Now I know this particular one is probably due to the fact that she thinks it is against regs but still...
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Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
07.31.2012 , 03:52 PM | #550
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
One of the primary points Zandilar is making, though (correct me if I'm wrong here, Zandilar) is that it's not just a matter of backstory but also of ongoing interaction. Where the character normally wouldn't respond to someone with interest because they're not interested in that gender they would be more likely to if that gender were suddenly their flavour, so to speak.

Making Kira into a bisexual woman would, for example, not just be a matter of changing how she reacts to the female PC but also, in theory, every significant female NPC in the game. That means a lot more in the way of dialogue changes.

That is, if I'm not wrong, one of Zandilar's main points and (I suspect) the main one that's getting missed.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. Further, it's like chaos theory (or whatever, I'm paraphrasing the example here) - you know, if you go back in time and squash a butterfly that wouldn't otherwise have been squashed, everything from that point on changes (or if it simply flaps it's wings in a different direction... whatever). A lesbian Kira would have a different life path to a bisexual Kira or a straight Kira, simply because in the past, some of her interactions with other people would be different (flirting with someone she otherwise wouldn't have flirted with) and would therefore have changed the way some events panned out (aforementioned flirting might lead to a relationship that might not have happened), leading to very different characters (or not - because it is also possible that not much would change... but it's not realistic to expect that "not much would change" would be the outcome for every LI with a discrete sexuality).

Kira's potential past flirtation and relationship might not ever be mentioned in the character arc as presented in the game, but it would have an effect, nonetheless, as part of her background.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.