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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Halinmonk's Avatar


Halinmonk
07.29.2012 , 01:30 PM | #531
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Gao_Gao View Post
i've been watching and participating in this thread since it started.

i'm honestly amazed it is still alive, as i left the forums for many moons.

all i have to say is, are you people serious? while i support you, i just don't understand how you have any hopes for anything. with the recent drop in subs, and its implication for the future, do you honestly think they will spend the time to implement same gendered romance to storylines that people will likely be able to play for free once the financial facts are realized?

do you honestly think that in between firing literally everyone, that there is really a team working hard to write this specific dialogue? i'm sure there are people workign on "writing":, but all we will see of their work is in receiving HK47, and some bad planet dialogue for the next "great expansion".

i'm sure my doom and gloom won't break your commitment to seeing this, but i honestly feel bad for anyone who still has any hope for this. i "hope" i'm wrong.
Nothing to see here, just another hater that doesn't understand what's actually happening financially with the game.

Anyways: I have my hopes for 1.4, I still have a ton of characters I am holding off on making because of this :3

Genghistwelve's Avatar


Genghistwelve
07.29.2012 , 06:59 PM | #532
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Gao_Gao View Post
...but all we will see of their work is in receiving HK47, and some bad planet dialogue for the next "great expansion"...
Different droid. It's HK-51. HK-47 is currently helping Darth Malgus one-shot anyone that tries to stop his coup d'etat. But, that's really beside the point, I guess.

I think the more important addition is allowing Cyborg "species" a polyamorous technosexual option to SCOMP-link with all computer- or data- terminals in the game.
"Have you been reading the history of the blind? Revan. Won. The. War."

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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
07.29.2012 , 08:09 PM | #533
Quote: Originally Posted by Genghistwelve View Post
I think the more important addition is allowing Cyborg "species" a polyamorous technosexual option to SCOMP-link with all computer- or data- terminals in the game.
Um... what? I'll assume that's a joke, because if it's not then it's kind of like saying that getting a pacemaker will cause you to want to make out with a fridge.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Chaoskyx's Avatar


Chaoskyx
07.29.2012 , 09:03 PM | #534
Quote: Originally Posted by Genghistwelve View Post
I think the more important addition is allowing Cyborg "species" a polyamorous technosexual option to SCOMP-link with all computer- or data- terminals in the game.
Best thing I've read all day.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
07.30.2012 , 12:31 AM | #535
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Gao_Gao View Post
i've been watching and participating in this thread since it started.
How nice of you to finally share your thoughts.

Quote:
i'm honestly amazed it is still alive, as i left the forums for many moons.
As did I. But the game is still here, same-sex companion romance is still promised and still pending, and players still very much wish to see it implemented.

Quote:
all i have to say is, are you people serious?
Yes. Are you?

Quote:
while i support you,
You do? Took you long enough to say so. That's not really supportive. Keeping this issue current and in the eyes of the Dev Team is supportive. Understanding that it really does matter to some players is supportive. Snarky comments aren't.

Quote:
i just don't understand how you have any hopes for anything. with the recent drop in subs, and its implication for the future, do you honestly think they will spend the time to implement same gendered romance to storylines that people will likely be able to play for free once the financial facts are realized?
I don't get this. Yes, there was a drop in subs once the content locusts blew through the game and got bored. Are you saying that implementing SGRs will cost BioWare more subscriptions? I'd argue that following through on their promise of same-gender romantic content, that is keeping faith with players who have remained faithful to the game and continued to play in spite of the delay (which we were told as early as April might be as long as a year).

And that is why we still believe this will happen. It is story content. SWTOR is story-driven, and they take that element of the game just as seriously as flashpoints, ops etc. Some of us rate that a lot higher. BioWare knows that.

Quote:
do you honestly think that in between firing literally everyone, that there is really a team working hard to write this specific dialogue? i'm sure there are people workign on "writing":, but all we will see of their work is in receiving HK47, and some bad planet dialogue for the next "great expansion".

i'm sure my doom and gloom won't break your commitment to seeing this, but i honestly feel bad for anyone who still has any hope for this. i "hope" i'm wrong.
We appreciate your sympathy, but it is misplaced. Rather, if you really are supportive of same-gender content, understand that our concern here is when and how this will be implemented in the game. Whether it will is not in question - something which you would know if you had honestly paid any attention to this thread at all.

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
07.30.2012 , 02:34 AM | #536
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
I find it interesting that of all the many "unrealistic" things that happens in a fantasy game, only the availabilty of romances to either gender has to comply some arbitrary idea of "reality"
It's "unrealistic" that a person will fall in love with someone regardless of morals, looks, ethics, race, religion, species..... This happens in the game and no one seems to be raising their concerns over "reality". Why a gender check has to be made and not many other things ?
This is a good argument for all LIs being PCsexual, because you're right. We are talking about a game, and lots of unrealistic things happen in games, particularly when romances are involved. It is unrealistic to think that a predominantly LS companion would fall in love with a full on DS PC. Or that all the LI companions would be interested in cross species relationships. Most of the romances occur within the space of half a dozen conversations, which is also not terribly realistic (though I'm sure someone is going to point out that some people get married after only knowing each other for hours, and I'm sure there are some very very very rare instances where those marriages last until death parts them).

Quote:
I don't understand what you mean by this.

For me, the only difference between a gay man and a straight one is which gender is the people they like to have sex with, be emotianally attached to. That's all. I won't assume anything else beyond that.

Say Steve Cortez in ME3. What if instead of "husband" in his lines it was "wife" ? What would have changed for you ? Nothing for me. He would still be the same smart, sweet guy who's grieving the loss of a loved one.
But if he said "wife" instead of husband, he would probably also be attracted to female!Shepard, and therefore would react differently to female!Shepard when she flirts with him. He might also show interest in other female crew-mates, especially if not romanced (ie: Garrus goes for Tali if neither are romanced). And that is primarily what I mean.

Quote:
Let's say you like Kira's romance with a male Jedi. You say it's well written. What makes it a good writing ? What is actually written or the lack of a "female" version of that romance ?

Some people don't find engaging homosexuals romances, others don't find engaging straight ones. If a writer manages to write a romance that's equally enjoyable and satisfying for some from first bunch as well as for some from the second bunch, how is that bad writing ? I could even say it's good writing.

I think this has to do more with "gender-blindness" in a game, as an approach to writing than specifically a "romance" issue, but that's another whole discussion.
Sexuality is a part of a person's personality, and therefore informs their reactions to certain situations and experiences in general. So when writing a character, one has to be aware of their sexuality. The problem with PCsexual characters is that quite often, their sexuality is left out as a consideration of their past history and experiences (because PCsexuals don't actually have their own sexuality, they merely react to/reflect the PC's sexuality). This is bad writing and/or poor character design, IMHO. (I suppose one could argue that things work differently when writing for a game, given the limited amount of space the writers have for character development, but I still think that there is a certain level of realism writers should strive for, and working out what sexuality a character from the get go is part of that... Which is why I was encouraged when they said what they said about already knowing which characters would be SGRAable.)
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

MusedMoose's Avatar


MusedMoose
07.30.2012 , 06:49 AM | #537
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
This is a good argument for all LIs being PCsexual, because you're right. We are talking about a game, and lots of unrealistic things happen in games, particularly when romances are involved. It is unrealistic to think that a predominantly LS companion would fall in love with a full on DS PC. Or that all the LI companions would be interested in cross species relationships. Most of the romances occur within the space of half a dozen conversations, which is also not terribly realistic (though I'm sure someone is going to point out that some people get married after only knowing each other for hours, and I'm sure there are some very very very rare instances where those marriages last until death parts them).
I'd like to think everything in this game actually happens in a lot more time than it seems. Otherwise, I'd have some serious doubts about the competence levels of both the Republic and the Empire if I can drop in on a planet, solve all the locals' problems, and pull off a massive successful military operation in a matter of hours. I agree with what you're saying, but I think some allowances have to be made for the format of this story. If our characters' adventures were a novel or a series of novels, with each chapter being one book, then the romances wouldn't seem so rushed. But, it's a game, and there's only so much time.

This reminds me a bit of how romances worked back in Baldur's Gate II - if you didn't choose a wrong dialogue option or otherwise screw it up, you'd get a romance dialogue with a potential partner every hour or so you spent playing. But in that game, an hour of real time could comprise days or even weeks of game time. So it felt like things were developing more naturally. It would be interesting if they did that in TOR - if, for example, there was a day or a week between romance dialogues. I don't know if people would like it. But it would get rid of the "you just passed a major story point and my affection is through the roof, let's have six romance dialogues and the last one ends in marriage" way it is now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
Sexuality is a part of a person's personality, and therefore informs their reactions to certain situations and experiences in general. So when writing a character, one has to be aware of their sexuality. The problem with PCsexual characters is that quite often, their sexuality is left out as a consideration of their past history and experiences (because PCsexuals don't actually have their own sexuality, they merely react to/reflect the PC's sexuality). This is bad writing and/or poor character design, IMHO. (I suppose one could argue that things work differently when writing for a game, given the limited amount of space the writers have for character development, but I still think that there is a certain level of realism writers should strive for, and working out what sexuality a character from the get go is part of that... Which is why I was encouraged when they said what they said about already knowing which characters would be SGRAable.)
I agree with you, please don't get me wrong on that, but I'm wondering how important sexuality is for the limited amount we get to know the companion characters. Most of their major personality traits and backstory don't have much, if anything, to do with their sexuality. So in theory, it would be possible to write them with various sexual preferences without going against their personality traits or their backstories.

For example: Corso was raised to treat women well, so he would whether he was attracted to them or not. Kira's unfortunate past and her rebellious nature would still be part of her no matter whose robes she wanted to take off. Dorne would still be a stickler for regulations, Aric would still be a grumpy former sniper, Kaliyo would still be a bloodthirsty backstabber, and so on. I haven't seen the full stories of all companions - hell, many of them I've never even met - so I can't say whose backstories would be drastically affected by their sexuality. But so far, I've seen very little evidence that any would.

Like I said, I agree with you that sexuality and personality affect each other and a character's sexuality is going to affect what they do. If the companions were characters in a novel, or party members in a single-player game where we got to know a great deal about them, changing their sexuality could have major effects. But in the little we get to know about them, it might not make that much of a difference. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this, but still.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
07.30.2012 , 08:51 AM | #538
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
The problem with PCsexual characters is that quite often, their sexuality is left out as a consideration of their past history and experiences (because PCsexuals don't actually have their own sexuality, they merely react to/reflect the PC's sexuality).
Well, that happens a lot with non PCsexual-characters as well.

My JK knows nothing about Kira's history...does that make her a poorly written character?

This actually happens a lot with the female companions...Kaliyo is the only exception I can think of.

Ergo, Kaliyo is the best written companion in the game.

Yay, I finally proved that!
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Feline_Jaye's Avatar


Feline_Jaye
07.30.2012 , 09:08 AM | #539
I haven't dropped by the forums for a while (a long while) but I wanted to come back and see if they've actually released even the most vaguest of info on SGRAs.

Last I heard was at launch, and all they were saying was that SGRAs were to be added at a 'later point'.

Anymore word because I'd really love to start playing my bisexual main and my lesbian alt.
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
07.30.2012 , 09:31 AM | #540
Quote: Originally Posted by Feline_Jaye View Post
I haven't dropped by the forums for a while (a long while) but I wanted to come back and see if they've actually released even the most vaguest of info on SGRAs.

Last I heard was at launch, and all they were saying was that SGRAs were to be added at a 'later point'.

Anymore word because I'd really love to start playing my bisexual main and my lesbian alt.
We did get more information, finally, at the Guild Summit, early in April. The upshot is that yes, same-gender romance is still to come. They ran short of time and money coming into launch, hence the delay. They won't just be switching pronouns in the existing companion scripts - each companion with a same-gender romance will have new dialog for that. Not all companions will be romanceable for the same sex - the design team knew from early on who would be, and it's those for whom they feel it makes sense, and no they won't reveal who that is. Same-gender romantic content will be implemented with other new story content, "this year" - as specific as they got regarding time frame, but they say they want to take the time they need to do it right.

Since April, not a peep.