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SM Denova difficulty


Bonesmello's Avatar


Bonesmello
07.27.2012 , 08:37 AM | #21
I always get the impression that new people think these are easier than they really are because people can drag their asses through anything in tionese gear. We can only do that because we've been farming these things for months and know every little trick. Throw 8 new 50s with no experience into SM EC and let me know how that goes.
Zoo'phobia - Sorc Healer <Remarkable Circumference> of The Shadowlands
Knocked his head clean off.
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KBSIP's Avatar


KBSIP
07.27.2012 , 09:00 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
The other day, on my tankassin, I was told my gear wasn't good enough for Denova. I thought that was a little strange since I've successfully tanked HM EV, and my gear is all Columi or better (with three Rakata, three BM, and two BH pieces). I was told that SM Denova is "significantly harder" than HM EV. I'm just wondering if that's true, and if so, what gear level do I need?

Also, what drops there?
as far as gear checks go... I went though it for the first time and NEVER hit an enrage timer except once when half the DPS died on kephess, and we were so far ahead of the timer it still didn't kick in until 8%. the gear check is light, and for a tankassin the gear check is near non-existent.

you can immunity through the incinerate armor debuff, so the only check for you is can you survive kephess' cleave and BOTM.

nailing down mechanics can smooth out the fight perfectly-
1) fast tank swaps on T&Z
2) either tank swap or cheese through Inc. Armor on FB&SC
3) clear the minesweeper in 4 disarms
4) nail down the mechanic cluster F that is kephess

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
07.27.2012 , 02:32 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Eternalnight View Post
I'm going to say again.

While I don't know their reasons were, if it was up to me, these things are not just about gear.

If I had to pug a random stranger to do Denova, I would not take a tank who has not done it before.
That's certainly the raid leader's prerogative, but I think it's a poor choice. Tanks are hard enough to come by already--by only taking tanks who already know the fights you're locking new tanks out of the system. If you know that a number of your pugs are new to the place and you don't want more than two or three newbies, I can understand that. I don't think telling tanks they need to roll an alt, level to 50, gear up, and learn the fights as a healer or dps is a very good strategy long-term if you plan to pug.
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
07.27.2012 , 02:33 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by KBSIP View Post
as far as gear checks go... I went though it for the first time and NEVER hit an enrage timer except once when half the DPS died on kephess, and we were so far ahead of the timer it still didn't kick in until 8%. the gear check is light, and for a tankassin the gear check is near non-existent.

you can immunity through the incinerate armor debuff, so the only check for you is can you survive kephess' cleave and BOTM.

nailing down mechanics can smooth out the fight perfectly-
1) fast tank swaps on T&Z
2) either tank swap or cheese through Inc. Armor on FB&SC
3) clear the minesweeper in 4 disarms
4) nail down the mechanic cluster F that is kephess
In the future I may just lie and say I've done it before and watch the videos or something.
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.27.2012 , 03:36 PM | #25
My guild decided to try SM EC only watching videos and reading strats. We were mostly Rakata/Columi with the occasional BH piece. 3 weekends later with lots of frustrations and expensive repair bills, we had yet to finish Toth and Zorn.

The 4th weekend we ran it (mostly same group, same gear) with ONE different person who had run it all the way to the end and knew more than just theory, and we made it to Kephess in 2 hours, and beat him the next day. This was 7 people who only knew the theory and 1 person with experience.

So as long as you have mumble/ventrilo/similar, and someone who not only knows the fights but is good at explaining them, and a group of people willing to listen, and who otherwise know their own classes well, you can pull it off without super gear.

Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
07.27.2012 , 10:45 PM | #26
Oh my gods
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
That's certainly the raid leader's prerogative, but I think it's a poor choice. Tanks are hard enough to come by already--by only taking tanks who already know the fights you're locking new tanks out of the system. If you know that a number of your pugs are new to the place and you don't want more than two or three newbies, I can understand that. I don't think telling tanks they need to roll an alt, level to 50, gear up, and learn the fights as a healer or dps is a very good strategy long-term if you plan to pug.
Where do people come up with stuff like that? You're making stuff up and not seeing the full context of all that was said.

1. I don't really "plan to pug". That just does not sound right. Pugging is always the last resort. Sometimes it needs to be done when there is no other choice.

2. Tanks are not hard to come by. I see quite a large number of tanks spamming LFG EC every day.

3. I'm not locking any "new" tanks out. They can join guilds and work their way into guild groups (preferably, if it is up to me, by showing their skills by doing some other content first before getting into Denova)

4. Who is telling tanks to reroll dps or healer and learn the fights before going in as a tank? Where do you even come up with this kind of nonsense?
I for one would suggest anyone who wants to tank to go in and learn the fights for the first time as a tank, but I would also suggest they are better off doing that in a guild group.
And for the record, I have been in Denova with many other tanks and at least 5 of them were doing Denova (or at least some part of it) for the first time in their life when they were in the same group with me as tanks, and I had no objection to any of that, because for the most part, I had seen them in action in other operations and knew how well they performed.
(Of course it is the same story for myself. I went in for the first time to learn the fights as a tank, but the other team members trusted me to be able to do it, because they had seen me do other content).

I have no objection for taking first timers to tank Denova, but in the highly unlikely event that I had to pug a player who I have never seen before, then especially for a tank I would only take someone who actually has done it before (and done it before as a tank, not with some dps alt).

I always set higher requirements for pugs than for people I have played with together enough to know and trust their skills.

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
07.27.2012 , 11:19 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Eternalnight View Post
Oh my gods


Where do people come up with stuff like that? You're making stuff up and not seeing the full context of all that was said.
For someone complaining about being taken out of context, you sure didn't worry to much about trying to understand where I'm coming from. Where do "people" come up with this stuff? How about "not all people are exactly like you."

Quote:
1. I don't really "plan to pug". That just does not sound right. Pugging is always the last resort. Sometimes it needs to be done when there is no other choice.
I pug. Period. I'm not interested in joining a guild because for RL reasons I can't raid regularly. This point here is really at the core of your entire... misunderstanding, I guess. If logging in with plans to pug something doesn't make sense to you, I'm not sure we have any common ground.

You could have save d a lot of typing if you had just said, "that doesn't apply to me because I rarely pug" or something. Honestly, dude, if you don't understand something, instead of throwing a hissy fit, stop and think for two seconds.
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
07.28.2012 , 06:23 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
I pug.
I see what you did there.
"If you plan to pug" was replaced with "i pug" but also more importantly you are talking about pugging in 2 different meanings "raid leader inviting few pugs to join his group" and "raider joining a group as a pug".

but let's not get stuck to that either.

The main thing is.

Quote:
It's pretty clear that--no offense--your view of getting groups is pretty narrow.
Well, since it is coming from you I would have to suggest that you should maybe widen your own view about getting groups.

You see:
Quote:
Not all of us have the option of running with a guild.
This is again something I would consider nonsense.

For now, I'm going to have to say that everyone who plays the game enough to have time to do whole pug raids (and enough time to get geared for it first) has the option to be in a guild and do guild raids too.

Over the years in different mmo forums I have seen many people claiming that they don't have the option to run with a guild, but I have yet to see anyone give any real reason as to why they can't.

They typically give the same excuse as you do.
Quote:
because for RL reasons I can't raid regularly
Well, if being able to raid regularly was an actual requirement for being in guild and joining some of its guild raids, then you would have a point there, but as a matter of fact it isn't. It maybe a requirement for some of the guilds, but just because there are some guilds that you can't join, does not mean that you can't join a guild. There are countless people who are in guilds and do raids with them irregularly. Some of them do pugs too in addition to that, but there is no reason for them to limit themselves so that pugging becomes their only option.

Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
07.28.2012 , 06:36 AM | #29
and in other matters

Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
In the future I may just lie and say I've done it before
You could lie, but you may be overestimating yourself and underestimating the content you are doing.

There is a good chance you would get exposed as soon as the boss fight begins people would see that you're doing wrong, and what would lying about it then achieve for you? Get yourself swiftly kicked out of the group and start building up a reputation within the server community as a noob who lies to get into groups, possibly.

Then again in most cases there are ways by which a player can prove that they have done the content before and if lying to get in became more common and if I only wanted to take someone who has done it before, I could simply ask for such a proof.

"LFM EC come to me riding on your Aratech Fire or no invite"
How would you fake that?

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
07.28.2012 , 08:38 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Eternalnight View Post
"LFM EC come to me riding on your Aratech Fire or no invite"
How would you fake that?
I'd laugh at you. I don't even want in a group that thinks it needs to overgear everything with experienced players to be successful. Heck, I saw this in WoW--"PST for invite with ach link"--and I didn't join their lousy groups either. The rest of what you said isn't even worth responding to. It amounts to "I've heard a lot of people say this, but all of them are wrong and I am right." You have your reasons, of course, for thinking that the people who disagree with you are lazy or ignorant or whatever, but people always have reasons for thinking what they do.
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.