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So are light side sith still sith?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
So are light side sith still sith?

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
07.21.2012 , 12:27 PM | #21
this is really quite simple when you think about it. think of both the edi order and the sith as what they really are, a religious cult/organization. think of any of todays religions, if you stop following the teaching of your religion and start following the teaching of another, then you would stop calling yourself a follower of the first religion and start calling yourself a follower of your new religion. your old religion would still consider you a part of their religion, and your new religion would not consider you a part of theirs if you didn't claim to be a part of it.

its really that simple, if you stop following the darkside, and stopped following the teaching of the sith, then no, you are no long a part of the sith. somebody changing the religion its creed, its code and its message is a completely different subject, but as it stands if you stop following the way the teaching tell you, then you have turned your back on what makes you sith

but to OP's point about playing a lightside sith in game, that really doesn't matter, your characters journey as you play it will not be canon. so your lightside sith will never really be anyway
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

Lady_Alyria's Avatar


Lady_Alyria
07.21.2012 , 12:45 PM | #22
Most of my light side Sith choices are let them be imprisoned and tortured opposed to killing them outright. That's not exactly unicorns and fluffy bunnies. I don't see anything un-Sith-like about not killing every.single.person you come across. Sometimes your stabbing arm just gets tired. And the people you let crawl away still breathing may at some point prove useful (which happens in the stories sometimes, you spare someone and they help in a later fight). Killing everyone for killing sake may make you super evil but it won't make you a good sith, walking around half mad with no allies makes it hard to rise in the ranks.

Cavell's Avatar


Cavell
07.21.2012 , 01:01 PM | #23
Is your light side Sith a Sith? Let's see.

1) Does he/she follow the Sith code?

2) Do others acknowledge him/her as a Sith?

If the answer to both is "yes," then congratulations, he/she is a Sith.

As others have said, you guys are getting far too lost in the weeds of this particular discussion. The game takes place well before the Rule of Two for the Sith and the Ruusan Reformation for the Jedi, meaning that both cults in their "modern" forms as we know them from the movies are quite different from how they functioned in this time period. TOR-era Jedi were much more militaristic or at least "fightier", had a less restrictive code - the bit where Orgus talks about Jedi being forbidden to marry is an anachronism on Bioware's part, that wouldn't come in for centuries - and the Sith are a much more vast and diverse organization.

I think it's telling that at one point in KotOR II, Carth - I think it's Carth, might have been Atton - talks about how it was called the Jedi Civil War because, for your average non-Force user, the Jedi and the Sith are basically two sides of the same coin. Catholics and Protestants, if you will.

bcjedi's Avatar


bcjedi
07.21.2012 , 01:50 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by aramilshadow View Post
The sith teachings are all about embracing ALL of your emotions, yess that usually means you embrace Hatred and anger, but it can also mean love, compassion. The Jedi teach you to supress your emotions which is why ani turned darkside because he embraced love, which turned to hatred when his wife was dying. So yes there can be light side sith.
In a way, besides embracing love, he embraced his hatred when he went all Rambo on the Tusken Raiders. Doesn't help that after his mom died he became obsessed with the idea of saving people from death. Enter pregnant padme.

RixoFutu's Avatar


RixoFutu
07.24.2012 , 03:32 PM | #25
No, Siths as race weren't strong in dark side of the force. They were strong simply in the force and exile Dark Jedies teach them how to use force - it's dark side.
"Once, I thought myself a monster. I played in rivers of blood and laughed as innocents quaked. Yet when I touched the Dread Masters, I saw that my darkness was but a shadow of true depravity."

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
07.24.2012 , 11:24 PM | #26
Yes, they're still Sith.
They're just pragmatic and more patient instead of ruthless and hungry for power.
________║≤o≥║___________
/_______TROOPER___≡≡≡≡≡≡≡╡
\_/‾‾‾‾ // ╝‾‾╚▄▄▄▄▄/‾‾‾‾‾

Petnil's Avatar


Petnil
07.27.2012 , 03:24 AM | #27
a sith wouldnīt be lightside i suppose, but the light side/dark side options in SWTOR are poor imo.
sometime the light side option makes more sense from a dark side point of wiev. Ex. why would you kill somebody if you could send him somewhere to be interogated. Many mindless kill options where we kill people we dont know just for dark side points. Why ? Itīs not that we hate all people.
As trooper in the starting area get lightside points to give medicin to a refuge and dark side to give it to our fellow troopers. But if the troopers die who will defend the refugeīs. Light side/dark side options arenīt as simple as this game makes it

ElvenPadfoot's Avatar


ElvenPadfoot
07.27.2012 , 12:06 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by grandmthethird View Post
this is really quite simple when you think about it. think of both the edi order and the sith as what they really are, a religious cult/organization. think of any of todays religions, if you stop following the teaching of your religion and start following the teaching of another, then you would stop calling yourself a follower of the first religion and start calling yourself a follower of your new religion. your old religion would still consider you a part of their religion, and your new religion would not consider you a part of theirs if you didn't claim to be a part of it.

its really that simple,

*snip!*
No, it's really not that simple. Keleth-Ur is still considered a sith lord. (He's the heretic with the hologram in the sith temple on DK.) The sith don't call him the 'jedi Keleth-Ur', they call him the heretic sith lord. They are even aware of the general nature of his heresies, but still recognize him as sith.

As far as the religion analogy, it doesn't hold up. Baptists will tell you they are christians. So will lutherans. As will episcopalians. And so will those small churches full of snake-handlers. Most of these churches still recognize the others as 'christian' (misguided perhaps, but still christian). That's why there are no calls for crusades between these denominations. *wink*

Similarly, Revanites in game refer to Revan as 'darth Revan'. I bet if you asked a random sampling of revanites, several would say, ''oh yeah, we're still sith... just a different kind of sith''. These revanite heretics still access sith powers. At least one (the girl that sends you after revan's mask), is clearly dark-side.

So you can SAY it's ''really that simple'' but clearly, it's not. In my opinion (no more or less 'right' than anyone else's) sith are sith as long as they beleive they are sith and can demonstrate a mastery of sith force techniques.

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
07.28.2012 , 11:14 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by ElvenPadfoot View Post
No, it's really not that simple. Keleth-Ur is still considered a sith lord. (He's the heretic with the hologram in the sith temple on DK.) The sith don't call him the 'jedi Keleth-Ur', they call him the heretic sith lord. They are even aware of the general nature of his heresies, but still recognize him as sith.

As far as the religion analogy, it doesn't hold up. Baptists will tell you they are christians. So will lutherans. As will episcopalians. And so will those small churches full of snake-handlers. Most of these churches still recognize the others as 'christian' (misguided perhaps, but still christian). That's why there are no calls for crusades between these denominations. *wink*

.
well i do tend to ramble alot however you seem to have won my argument for me while trying to prove me wrong.

what is a heretic, and more importantly what happened to heretics?

oxford tells us that a heretic is

Definition of heretic
noun
a person believing in or practising religious heresy.
a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

you have to realize that although star wars seems like a much more advanced civilization than our own. in many ways its not. its like something directly out of the dark ages. i'm sure alot of this is because barbarians are much more exciting ppl to write about. spacers fending off pirates, warrior monks, evil cultists, organized crime syndicates as powerful as the ruling governments and the 2 largest super powers in what seems to be a never ending war.

so if we look back to history. what would happen to a heretic? they wouldn't live long. and the lord you are referring to, well hes dead. and i think the reason he is still referred to as a lord, is damage control. to strip him of his title will bring up questions, such as "what did he do wrong" much better to let him and his secret go the grave together and hope no1 ever hears of the truth

as for my religous analogies, you are right in todays world they might not hold up very well. although there is still alot of religious resentment between some faiths, but if again you go back to barbarian times my analogy works fine. if you didn't practice the right kind of religion the right way you were considered a heretic and killed.

in star wars a light side sith would end up in the same place as Keleth-Ur
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
07.28.2012 , 11:32 AM | #30
Imperial Knights..anyone?
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."