sandbox/thempark and how it relates to swtor

If Bioware had pushed the class quest content up to ~50% of the levelling content it would have been a much better game (all other things being the same)...... but, of course, it would have been a much more expensive game to make.

But still if they'd managed that and added more/some "sandy" features a lot of the main criticisms of SWTOR wouldn't have existed.

Rift had some nice touches like that, it felt more like the Developers wanted you to find a way to climb that big mountain just to set what was there (and there was something there ).

I've occasionally come across that with SWTOR (mostly with holocrons), but largely it feels more like you are NOT supposed to go to many places instead, and you rarely feel free of the "walls".

IMO, you have way too much faith and confidence in todays MMO player community. 85% of today's player community does not have the commitment or attention span to play sandbox. They can play together in a real sandbox in real life probably, but they are in reality way too needy and whiny to play any real sandbox MMO.

I predict that the MMO community will fracture and dwindle significantly over the next 5 years. The current community is a freak aberation of a decade of WoW and with WoW now well in decline, a majority of those that cut their teeth on MMOs with WoW will leave permanently. They will probably move on to app based minigames on cell phones for the most part. Which will leave a core of about 15-20% of MMO players still playing actual MMOs by 2015-2017. Which is fine by me because those will be the loyal committed MMO players playing smaller niche MMOs with commitment rather then consuming and hopping from game to game to game.

Overall, the reall problem for SWTOR is the implosion of the MMO player base. It makes it really tough on a very large MMO production and release. So, this MMO will likely settle in as a smaller, more niche, more loyally treated MMO in the next year or two..... AND that is not a bad thing as far as I am concerned.

Completely false spin by a sandbox fan

The numbers do not support your claim in the slightest!

The Themepark purchases are at a all time high, its the reoccuring subscription thats at a all time low and thats about the difficulty (or lack of) and fast leveling in modern MMORPGs. NOT about Themepark design.

There has been Sandbox releases since SWG and all failed or were designed (like EVE) to be a very low subscription game to turn a profit.

Sandbox does not have the following you claim. Please by all means show us this massive sandbox following supporting the sandbox games that came out from UO on. Its simply not there.

Theme park is not the problem, fast and sloppy leveling/difficulty curve plus just poor design choices are the issue.

You release TOR as is with a 150% longer leveling curve, more combats to suggest grouping (but not forcing it), allong with item degenration so crafter goods wear out and need to be repurched (creating a ongoing market for the crafters)

and then add in DAoC RVR,

Social side games like Pazzaak, Swoop Raceing, Holo Chess (that can be bet on).

Housing.

And lastly utilize ALL THE SPACE ON THE PLANETS (republic quests being 1 side and imo other side is nuts, no reason you cant have rep quests in the imp leveling lands.

If they had launched with that stuff (and before anyone claims its unreal. All that is simply standard items in MMOs now a days. Nothing in that list is outrageous) plus a ton of fluff in character itemization and design.

And this game would not have bleed the subs as fast as it did.

TOR downward spiral is NOT about theme park design (ANYONE making that illogical jump is just pushing their own agenda and nothing else, with NO FACTS to back them up). Its simply about missing content/design, bad utilization of space, lack of options.

Thats ALL on the developers and has nothing at all to do with Sandbox/themepark concepts.

All of those are "sandy" concepts.

Really? Then maybe you should explain this to all the WoW cloned MMOs that have released and since either gone free to play or closed down. Regarding EVE - growing slowly is the idea and its been very successful. Just because a game doesnt have the dizzy numbers of WoW but is making a profit = a success.

And claiming that SWTORs downfall isnt down to themepark, you actually contradict yourself right after. Themeparks are ALL about content. lack of content = lack of players. So your point is mute.

Going Free to Play is not in on itself a bad thing. Sure, alot of MMO vets cringe at the idea, but both subscriber trends and market analysis both suggest that's where the future of the genre is moving.

But, I would say that themepark MMO's are still showing more financial success because at least those games are still being made, even if some don't last long.

What was the last AAA sandbox mmo?

No sorry not this time, i know that i collected and forwarded threads into one main thread to help get points across in beta like when i got all the info release week and the eu and recently with the space stuff etc etc but im not doing it anymore.

the mechanics that you use in game development are based on what your games mission statement is, and Bioware's mission has always been based on story. They even said as much in the announcement trailer for the game.

That said, sandbox style gameplay doesn't really help a deeply story-based game. In many cases it makes the story completly redundant.

Go and try to actually read what I said at the top of this thread.