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bots hacks and cheats killing pvp

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
bots hacks and cheats killing pvp
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Evil_Santa's Avatar


Evil_Santa
07.23.2012 , 11:25 AM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
He's placing his AoE. That's not a hack or anything. Clever use of game mechanics.
Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time. Then again, using group stealth on an already stealthed player so they can stealth cap is also a "clever use of game mechanics", but you can't do that anymore because Bioware deemed it an exploit.

I'm curious about why you're defending this obviously broken mechanic?
Quote:EA CEO John Riccitiello's"When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE

ebado's Avatar


ebado
07.23.2012 , 11:30 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by Evil_Santa View Post
Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time.

Hmm wonder if you're the shadow that was using deathfield (w/e the pub equivalent is) there...
My shadow is kinetic and level 47. Do you play on The Bastion? I'd be careful about paranoia.

It's an unfair tactic and should be fixed (like jumping over the gap in VS, which was fixed), but they are just using what's available to them. Exploits are more serious than that, like planting from inside the wall or abusing the old Voidstar ramp. Where something is clearly going wrong. Placing an AoE doesn't qualify on that level.

Edit: Nice try editing out your accusation.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

SinnedWill's Avatar


SinnedWill
07.23.2012 , 11:39 AM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Evil_Santa View Post
Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time. Then again, using group stealth on an already stealthed player so they can stealth cap is also a "clever use of game mechanics", but you can't do that anymore because Bioware deemed it an exploit.

I'm curious about why you're defending this obviously broken mechanic?
Only one class can do this effectively (and you'd need 2-3 of them to keep all 3 from getting capped). Every other class will either have resource maintaining issues for their ground-targeted AoE's or cooldown timer issues.

Also, there is a way to counter this, though it's technically an exploit of its own and requires that you'd be a certain class and/or spec, so I'm not going to explain it.
Mains: TheSinner - Madness Sorc; Scornful - Carnage Marauder
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Evil_Santa's Avatar


Evil_Santa
07.23.2012 , 11:43 AM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
My shadow is kinetic and level 47. Do you play on The Bastion? I'd be careful about paranoia.

It's an unfair tactic and should be fixed (like jumping over the gap in VS, which was fixed), but they are just using what's available to them. Exploits are more serious than that, like planting from inside the wall or abusing the old Voidstar ramp. Where something is clearly going wrong. Placing an AoE doesn't qualify on that level.

Edit: Nice try editing out your accusation.
I checked the logs and it wasn't you, but yes i do play on the bastion - which is where that video was taken from.

It is something that's available to them, but calling it "unfair" isn't being honest about the ramifications of the tactic. It's exploiting the terrain by placing an AOE above players, from a position is totally safe from any attacks, while preventing the attacking team from moving forward for an indefinite amount of time.

Quote: Originally Posted by SinnedWill View Post
Only one class can do this effectively (and you'd need 2-3 of them to keep all 3 from getting capped). Every other class will either have resource maintaining issues for their ground-targeted AoE's or cooldown timer issues.

Also, there is a way to counter this, though it's technically an exploit of its own and requires that you'd be a certain class and/or spec, so I'm not going to explain it.


I play a sorc and can tell you with certainty that i could prevent any team from progressing beyond those walls in a voidstar match just by using force-lightning ontop of that wall from the safe side. All it would take is someone healing me while i consume to replenish the cost of force-storm for 5-min straight. That's not "unfair" - it's unstoppable.
Quote:EA CEO John Riccitiello's"When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE

ebado's Avatar


ebado
07.23.2012 , 11:57 AM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Evil_Santa View Post
I checked the logs and it wasn't you, but yes i do play on the bastion - which is where that video was taken from.

It is something that's available to them, but calling it "unfair" isn't being honest about the ramifications of the tactic. It's exploiting the terrain by placing an AOE above players, from a position is totally safe from any attacks, while preventing the attacking team from moving forward for an indefinite amount of time.
Unfair is accurate. I don't need to fluff up my adjectives to satisfy some quality threshold in your mind.
I believe it is an unintended aspect of the warzone. Much like jumping over the gap. Much like the double stealth. It brings in an element of clearly unintended unbalanced play and should be fixed. But that's different than an exploit.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

Evil_Santa's Avatar


Evil_Santa
07.23.2012 , 12:08 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
Unfair is accurate. I don't need to fluff up my adjectives to satisfy some quality threshold in your mind.
I believe it is an unintended aspect of the warzone. Much like jumping over the gap. Much like the double stealth. It brings in an element of clearly unintended unbalanced play and should be fixed. But that's different than an exploit.
Jumping the gap could be countered (having someone from your team jump it, or respawn to prevent the cap), and the double stealth could be countered (spam aoe's around the doors) - the only counter for this, is to hope that the person on the other side isn't a sage/sorc and if they are, that they run out of force. (or abuse the other exploit that was previously mentioned) That is why i call it an exploit. Kind of like abusing the ramp in voidstar, to cap before the round started was an exploit - there was no way to counter it.

Either way it's against the TOS, "Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay..." because it interferes with the normal flow of the warzone. Once every enemy on your side of the wall is dead, there should be no issues dropping the barrier and progressing further in the warzone.
Quote:EA CEO John Riccitiello's"When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE

ebado's Avatar


ebado
07.23.2012 , 12:17 PM | #137
Placing an AoE is normal. Jumping through walls isn't normal. Dropping below floors isn't normal. I'm not sure why this is a contentious thing for you.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

Soapland's Avatar


Soapland
07.23.2012 , 12:32 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by lexiekaboom View Post
Do any of the people QQing know what HACKING is?

Hint: it's not typing fast and making helicopters blow up, and it doesn't involve a 3D holo-graphic interface

You are confused. I can't say this enough. ALMOST. NO. ONE. IS. HACKING. PVP and the classes in general are just so broken you are seeing hacks where there are none. For example;

A powertech / Vanguard can be immune to root / snare / knockback with a little help for a complete war zone.
With the right combinations of buffs you can run at 300% speed for up to 9 seconds.
All knights and warriors can instantly fill their resolve bar without getting stunned.
A sentinel or marauder can exploit resolve and one ability to be immune to stun for 15+ seconds.
By leaping to a target and being pulled at the same time you can make yourself untargetable for long periods of time, or warp around the map
You can use the map to become immune to AOE damage in a number of ways
You can use the map to become untargetable in a number of ways
You can use any knock down ability in a way that makes it impossible to get up before the animation starts, effectively increasing the duration by 3-4 seconds.
Various other "animation lock" abilities can be used to increase the length of stuns to the point where you will have no resolve by the time they are finished, leading to chain stuns where it shouldn't be possible

These are exploits and NOT HACKING. And even then, 99% of all the QQ isn't even exploits and comes from a simple fact you NEED to understand before PVPing in SW:TOR

ALMOST EVERY CLASS HAS AT LEAST ONE ABILITY THAT IS BROKEN AND CRAZY OP IS USED CORRECTLY. On top of that, classes like Sent / Vaungard / and sumgs have the ability to do things that are so stupidly over powered (like stand there not taking damage for crazy amounts of time or killing you almost instantly) that people ASSUME THEY ARE HACKS when they are, in fact, just results of the way Bioware has designed the PVP game.

Last night playing voidstar a sage on my team tried to get everyone to report an operatives for hacking because he dropped out of stealth and killed him in 3 hits while he was stunned. THAT'S NOT A HACK, it's what operatives do. I've seen shadows reported for hacking in huttball because they ran the ball from start to finish using a SPEED HACK (force sprint) and a RESOLVE HACK which made them immune to stuns and root (resilience). Learn how broken the game is before crying hack.
I agree with you that people crying 'hack' are usually just ignorant about certain player abilities such as a sent's group speed buff which is extra fast for combat specced sents.

However some of the 'broken' abilities you mention simply don't exist. I'm not saying they are hacks, i'm saying you're making **** up. Explain to me how knights/warriors instantly fill their own resolve bar up without getting stunned? Perhaps you mean Guardians/Juggernauts can become immune to cc for a short period of time with 'Unremitting/Unstoppable' talented. This is NOT the same as filling up your own resolve bar, please don't spread misinformation.

Also, please tell me how a mara/sent can become immune to stun for 15+ seconds. This is just categorically untrue.

And about your 'map' exploits, perhaps you're just referring to the commonly used tactic of LOS? lol, that **** isn't new, and its not an exploit.

The 'knockdown' bug was exclusive to scoundrels and it involved using their hidden strike (imperial name) ability twice in the space of 2 globals by popping back into stealth immediately, so it seemed like you were knocked down for an eternity, it has been fixed for months now. There is NO knockdown ability that lasts for 4 seconds, nor is it possible to do it 'in such a way' as to extend the duration of the effect.

If you want people to take you seriously, mention the names of these so-called broken abilities and how they are used to exploit the game. I personally think you don't have a clue what you're talking about and that you haven't pvped all that much. I have spent a lot of time in this game pvping from when it came out, and not once have i seen any of these exploits you have mentioned.

Oh yeah, about the crazy amounts of time that a mara/sent can be invulnerable and how ptechs/vanguards can kill you 'almost instantly'. I'm not gonna dispute what is ridiculous hyperbole (almost instantly? if you were naked maybe), but its pretty obvious that those are not hacks and are just class abilities, overpowered though they may be. Nobody assumes they are hacks like you say, don't throw random **** in your argument just to prove your worthless point.

If you think the game is so damn broken, just quit. I can't understand why this game has so many mindless haters.

Evil_Santa's Avatar


Evil_Santa
07.23.2012 , 12:53 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
Placing an AoE is normal. Jumping through walls isn't normal. Dropping below floors isn't normal. I'm not sure why this is a contentious thing for you.
Preventing others from their objectives from a 100% safe location is not normal. If it is, then please tell me where in all of the warzones i can do this from.
Quote:EA CEO John Riccitiello's"When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE

ebado's Avatar


ebado
07.23.2012 , 01:19 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by Evil_Santa View Post
Preventing others from their objectives from a 100% safe location is not normal. If it is, then please tell me where in all of the warzones i can do this from.
The action is whether it''s an exploit or not. The result is whether it should be fixed. It's unbalanced and unfair. It should be fixed. But it's not on the same level as blatant exploiting. Why do you feel the need to argue this when the same basic response (fixing it) is shared between the two of us?
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion