Sniper/Gunslingers need a redesign?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Sniper/Gunslingers need a redesign?

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Sagaboy

07.22.2012 , 06:02 PM \| #41	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Cover-Gives 20% ranged defense boost,immune to leaps/pulls and interrupts -sniper has to be in cover or can spec to have this for 6 seconds after exiting cover -the sniper is stationary (my advice LoS, DoT, etc the sniper and keep on moving) Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Knockbacks-Ambush,knocks target back a small distance,cover pulse-AOE knockback 10 meters and roots targets for a few seconds -several classes have KB + root or slow combo -The ambush KB like the commando stock strike KB (which mind you doesn't have a 2.5 sec cast time) has to be specc'ed into Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Roots-Leg shot,immobilizes target for 4 second(Not sure on that,could be less),Aoe KB root -And did you know that Leg shot can miss or be dodged? Didn't think you did. Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo High damaging AOE abilities with no minimum distance required that persist through death -Please don't lie. Once the sniper dies the AoE (Orbital), plasma probe, etc go away. -It has a 2 or 3 second cooldown (can't be bothered to check atm) which can be reduced with talents -it's not instant which is actually a big negative in terms of PvP, but I digress Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo 20 second cc immunity. -Once you put down that CC immunity you can not move or it's gone -A little known fact is that a MM sniper can stop the CC immunity, but (and here's the kicker) there is such a lack of snipers around that everyone just assumes it's 100% immunity. You want to counter this bring another MM sniper. Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo AOE shield that reduces damage taken by your team. -Ask a sniper exactly how much damage is absorbed not reduced. They probably don't know. BW in their infinite wisdom of vagueness still to this day doesn't actually tell us how much damage is soaks up. I can say it isn't much. -There are 2 shields. One that ups your dodge by 100% which last 3 seconds - I believe 4 seconds with PvP set bonus. What all this means is that for a very short period of time a sniper is hard to hit/kill, but trust and believe it is possible. Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo AOE CC -that is broken if a rat so much as pisses in the wind and a droplet of said piss lands on one of those CC'd people Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Compare this to other caster classes like the Sage telekinetics and Mercenary Arsenal trees. The sage and Merc can get interrupted,they can get leapt to,their AoEs aren't as strong as sniper,they have no roots((I may be wrong)) and they dont hit near as hard as sniper.They have no immunity to cc,the sage has no defensive cooldowns and mercs have no escapes.Both Merc and Sage have single target CCs that require a 2 second cast time.Just seems to me if you compare the casters,sniper is by far the best wiith its uninterruptability and being unleapable.. So you make a generalization concerning snipers and then compare them to specific specs of other classes. Here is some food for thought. Different specs have different drawbacks. Sniper specs can give up burst dps, survivability, or sustained dps. The same can be said for other classes. Instead of trying to figure out how to nerf a class that actually takes some talent to be done "right." consider working at not (for lack of a better word) sucking. As a V-rank 90 sniper I know some sorcs and aresenal merc who regularly hand me my lunch. Stop wallowing in mediocrity and despair - figure out ways around your perceived weakness.

KBSIP

07.22.2012 , 06:07 PM \| #42	Quote
^ for a guy who "knows" this class you have a lot of mistakes. namely, the sniper bubble offers a FLAT 20% damage reduction bonus to all within it. its not an absorption. you're thinking of shield probe, an ADDITIONAL defensive cooldown besides evasion.

vimm

07.22.2012 , 06:09 PM \| #43	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Cover-Gives 20% ranged defense boost,immune to leaps/pulls and interrupts Knockbacks-Ambush,knocks target back a small distance,cover pulse-AOE knockback 10 meters and roots targets for a few seconds Roots-Leg shot,immobilizes target for 4 second(Not sure on that,could be less),Aoe KB root High damaging AOE abilities with no minimum distance required that persist through death 20 second cc immunity. AOE shield that reduces damage taken by your team. AOE CC Compare this to other caster classes like the Sage telekinetics and Mercenary Arsenal trees. The sage and Merc can get interrupted,they can get leapt to,their AoEs aren't as strong as sniper,they have no roots((I may be wrong)) and they dont hit near as hard as sniper.They have no immunity to cc,the sage has no defensive cooldowns and mercs have no escapes.Both Merc and Sage have single target CCs that require a 2 second cast time.Just seems to me if you compare the casters,sniper is by far the best wiith its uninterruptability and being unleapable.. Ambush is talented to knock back in the Marksman tree. Orbital Strike does not persist through death. You mentioned Cover Pulse twice. Leg Shot lasts 5 seconds, but ends prematurely on damage after 2 seconds.
geeR Phantom of the Operative

NoTomorrow

07.22.2012 , 06:21 PM \| #44	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by BigfootNZ So please OP, please go away... wonder what the OP is, might be interesting to find out... think its just some attempt at deflection from Mara nerf threads, thing is there are more slinger/sniper in the WZ's as of late and I bet its people jumping onto em thinking there the new FotM... thing is we've been one of the most static unchanging classes since launch so we've more or less always been like we are now, people are only now starting to appreciating or fearing what we can do. Heck in void star yesterday I had a scoundrel healing me non stop hiding in a corner and I was murdering people left right and center for over 5 minutes at the left door even when i had 2-3 people on me... was fun, rare occurrence, but fun. And to the OP , I play a Merc also... and yes you guys need a boost, really really stinky class but please dont cry nerf on us simply because your under powered.... isnt our fault. Ive seen sage/sorc DPS thats off the chart so to me their perfectly fine. Buff Mercs, leave us slingers alone! Umm Cover in open ground you get the 20% bonus to range defense, but not COVER benefits. Cover benefits ie being behind an actual object is different. While in cover behind an object near a cover point you can as long as your not attacking completely negate alot of ranged attacks. I might have this wrong, but often if your behind an object and visually bent over with your head down and a ranged attacker shoots you it can result in a 'cover' pop over your head indicating cover negated that attack. Being out in the open ground but behind your blue little screen doesnt give you this... melee can still tear you a new one no matter where you take cover. So cover placement is something we consider DO consider during a battle. But often since it only works against a few specific classes and the battle changes quickly its often easier to forgo cover benefits and just plonk down where we can get to work faster. If there where alot less melee saber wielding drongos in WZ's taking cover behind an object for its other bonus might actually be worth it, and fun. Id love to see a purely ranged (non force) fight. He said his classrs above. Imagine he is a tank assassin lol )
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we�re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a �wall bang� every now and then.

vimm

07.22.2012 , 06:22 PM \| #45	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Salubrie From a ranged DPS Sage perspective: A Sniper/Gunslinger runs close to you, crouches down in cover and knocks you back with a baseline non talented ability. Immobilized for 2 to 5 seconds (non removable by sage). Deals damage. Then proceeds to leg shot you for damage and another 2 to 5 seconds of becoming immobilized (non removable by sage). By this time, any work toward your resolve from the initial knock back has faded and they proceed to hit you with a flash bomb. Then they simply finish you off. And since they have me immobilized (rooted) in place where they want me, there is no option for line of sight for survival. Now lets look at what options I have as a ranged DPS sage to counter this. Now remember this is provided that the sniper/gunslinger is at Zero resolve. If they have full resolve I'm completely helpless. "Break Free Ability" = provided it is not on cool down, will only break the first root. Will not save me from the leg shot or flash grenade. 2 second stun = is equal to the minimum duration of the first root. Both roots lasts a full five seconds without taking damage. CC = if not talented for the instant cast, you won't get the spell off before your dead. Knock Back = Ineffective =I have already been knocked backed and rooted, they are out of range. Force Speed = Useless while immobilized. Force Slow = Useless as they are standing still anyway behind their screen. Now for those trying to cry your cover as a weakness... You can take cover anywhere (kneel down). You can use cover ability to "roll" to the boxes or corner nearby when a melee is on top of you. Sniper/Gunslinger = medium armor, with 2 baseline abilities that can immobilize for 2 to 5 seconds without being affected by resolve. Sage/Inquisitor = Light Armor, with 2 talented abilities that can immobilize (1 requires 12 points into one tree, the 2nd requires 30 points in a separate tree) This disparity between two ranged DPS classes for abilities that are and are not affected by resolve shows that is it not just about "how to deal with them" Why would a sniper run up to you? lol Where's your 4 second stun? And Whirlwind? Static Barrier? You act like being rooted for 2 seconds and mezzed (which breaks on damage) is the death of you, lol.
geeR Phantom of the Operative

Aehgo

07.22.2012 , 06:33 PM \| #46	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by vimm Ambush is talented to knock back in the Marksman tree. Orbital Strike does not persist through death. You mentioned Cover Pulse twice. Leg Shot lasts 5 seconds, but ends prematurely on damage after 2 seconds. Mentioned it twice because its a root and a KB,so it goes under the root catagory and the KB catagory

vimm

07.22.2012 , 06:36 PM \| #47	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Aehgo Mentioned it twice because its a root and a KB,so it goes under the root catagory and the KB catagory Sure, but it does no damage, so you can't root people with it if their resolve bar is full.
geeR Phantom of the Operative

yoyodar

07.22.2012 , 07:39 PM \| #48	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Salubrie From a ranged DPS Sage perspective: A Sniper/Gunslinger runs close to you, crouches down in cover and knocks you back with a baseline non talented ability. Immobilized for 2 to 5 seconds (non removable by sage). Deals damage. Then proceeds to leg shot you for damage and another 2 to 5 seconds of becoming immobilized (non removable by sage). By this time, any work toward your resolve from the initial knock back has faded and they proceed to hit you with a flash bomb. Then they simply finish you off. And since they have me immobilized (rooted) in place where they want me, there is no option for line of sight for survival. Now lets look at what options I have as a ranged DPS sage to counter this. Now remember this is provided that the sniper/gunslinger is at Zero resolve. If they have full resolve I'm completely helpless. "Break Free Ability" = provided it is not on cool down, will only break the first root. Will not save me from the leg shot or flash grenade. 2 second stun = is equal to the minimum duration of the first root. Both roots lasts a full five seconds without taking damage. CC = if not talented for the instant cast, you won't get the spell off before your dead. Knock Back = Ineffective =I have already been knocked backed and rooted, they are out of range. Force Speed = Useless while immobilized. Force Slow = Useless as they are standing still anyway behind their screen. Now for those trying to cry your cover as a weakness... You can take cover anywhere (kneel down). You can use cover ability to "roll" to the boxes or corner nearby when a melee is on top of you. Sniper/Gunslinger = medium armor, with 2 baseline abilities that can immobilize for 2 to 5 seconds without being affected by resolve. Sage/Inquisitor = Light Armor, with 2 talented abilities that can immobilize (1 requires 12 points into one tree, the 2nd requires 30 points in a separate tree) This disparity between two ranged DPS classes for abilities that are and are not affected by resolve shows that is it not just about "how to deal with them" Sorry if this has already been said but both the roots and the flash bang break on damage so they can't kill you well your rooted and cc with the examples so they are realy only usefull against melee dps to get away so we don't die in 5 seconds

KBSIP

07.22.2012 , 07:41 PM \| #49	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yoyodar Sorry if this has already been said but both the roots and the flash bang break on damage so they can't kill you well your rooted and cc with the examples so they are realy only usefull against melee dps to get away so we don't die in 5 seconds or giving you up to 13 seconds holding back MDPS from interrupting a cap, excellent and powerful abilities for objective based PVP.

NoTomorrow

07.22.2012 , 08:16 PM \| #50	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by KBSIP or giving you up to 13 seconds holding back MDPS from interrupting a cap, excellent and powerful abilities for objective based PVP. Mindtrap and sleeping dart would like to have a word with you.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we�re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a �wall bang� every now and then.

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