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Thoffs's Avatar


Thoffs
07.20.2012 , 02:12 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Coriolan_Martius View Post
So I conclude that either:

1. The whole shebang is coming in 1.4 (unlikely due to the time frame)
2. We are getting only nightmare mode in 1.4(very likely).
If 1.4 only contains EC NiM then that will extremely disappointing. I personally don't see how they can do that -- they need to release new content for everybody, not just new content for the top-end raiders.

I personally thought that EC NiM was going to be released as a bridge to 1.4 (ie., 1.35) in a small update, with 1.4 having a lot of content including a new story-mode/hard-mode ops and be here before the end of summer.

If 1.4 has just EC NiM, then 1.5 will be more 'features', not content -- and it would not be until 1.6 that the new ops, planet, all of the other stuff the promised would be out -- somewhere near December.

What they really need to do is communicate better and give people some time frames instead of letting us just speculate and become frustrated.

aurellian's Avatar


aurellian
07.21.2012 , 12:22 AM | #12
I don't understand this logic. It seems to me that "content" is classified only as endgame raids when it comes to the original poster's stance. While I think that is flawed logic, I won't go into that right now. What I will say instead is this game launched with only 1 endgame raid: Eternity Vault. About 3 months later we got Karaga's Palace, and about 3 months after that we got Explosive Conflict. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are only 3 endgame operations right now. that means basically every 3 months we're getting an ENTIRELY NEW operation. Exactly how fast do you want them to push out new "content"? People keep pointing to WoW as the standard for "content" release rate, but there was a 10 month gap between the release of the final raid in Wrath of the Lich King and the release of Cataclysm. I mean, how can anyone be saying that SWTOR isn't releasing "content" fast enough? The game has had 3 major "content" releases in 7 months! Not even Rift is releasing "content" that fast!

Norpsel's Avatar


Norpsel
07.21.2012 , 05:19 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by aurellian View Post
stuff
The title may just say content but if you read the OP, I specifically say one major criticism is endgame content and basically stuff to do at 50. I agree that WoW should not be the standard as well, infact I do not believe in the OP I even mentioned WoW's schedule. Since it was brought up again let's have a little comparison. The 10month period where WoW did not release new content was at the END of an expansion not at the release of a game. If we are going to compare, lets use Cataclysm release compared to SWTOR release.

Cata released with 3 raid encounters; Bastion of Twilight, Blackwing Descent and Throne of the Four Winds. BoT released with 4 bosses, 1 heroic only boss. It also had 3 difficulty settings. Blackwing Descent released with 6 bosses and again 3 difficulty settings. Throne released with 2 boss encounters and again 3 difficulty settings. That's a total of 12 bosses with 3 difficulty settings (LFR, normal and hardmode; I do believe LFR was introduced towards the end of that tier).

SWTOR released with 1 raid encounter and 1 raid boss. EV was released 5 bosses, sort of. Pylon encounter and Soa were extremely buggy until 1.2. EV also had 3 modes but completing Soa heroic was incredibly difficult due to the amount of bugs present at that time, acknowledged by the devs as well. Bonethrasher was release at launch and again was incredibly buggy, one shotting players as they zoned in another well known bug. So at launch, Cataclysm had 12 bosses over 3 encounters and SWTOR had 6 over 2 encounters. Already at launch Cataclysm had twice the number of raid bosses to tackle than SWTOR.

3 months later SWTOR added more bosses to Karraga's Palace. The new total was 10 raid bosses for SWTOR. Unfortunately, EV remained buggy (Soa mainly) but we will ignore that issue. 3 months later Explosive Conflict was released with 4 bosses and 2 difficulty settings, Nightmare was said to be released SOON, if I remember correctly it was supposed to be released prior to the next major patch which was 1.3 (according to dev posts if I remember correctly). At this point SWTOR had 14 raid bosses.

For Cataclysm, Firelands released with 7 bosses and 3 full fledged difficulty settings. So the total is 19 boss encounters. I should also mention, these encounters were tuned very well at launch and had few if any bugs. So overall, if we are to compare the two mmos (which again I am only doing in response to the previous post) WoW had 19 boss encounters and SWTOR had 14. Simple math, SWTOR contained ~74% of the total raid boss encounters that WoW did. 5 raid bosses is practically another raid encounter, more than what EC currently has. I should also remind you that Nightmare mode is STILL not released. Do not forget about the 3 difficulty settings that WoW had vs SWTOR. EC has been lacking a 3rd difficulty setting for 4 months now.

Again, I agree that WoW should not be the standard but if you must compare don't take the tail end of cata or wrath and compare it to the launch of SWTOR. Those are completely different. So again, SWTOR needs to step up it's game and start presenting new content before even more subs are lost (oh and I am not saying I'm going to unsub if new content isn't out tomorrow either). I really like this game but I think constructive criticism is needed. To beat a dead hoarse one more time, we need more endgame content to keep level capped players around. Please do not focus on legacy, this is a cool idea and is something that should have taken a backburner (imo) to producing more content.

Just so I don't sound completely negative, the LFG finder, Zombie event, ranked warzones and server transfers were great. It's the right track to be on but we are still lacking in other very important areas. Please remember, content will be outdated in 1/2 the time(if not more) than the devs believe which should emphasize the need for fresh new content. Again, 1.3 has put SWTOR on the right track but there is still a lot of work to be done.

Nolbag's Avatar


Nolbag
07.21.2012 , 05:47 AM | #14
WoW only release LFR with Dragon Soul and it's hardly a raid difficulty more of a snooze mode.

Norpsel's Avatar


Norpsel
07.21.2012 , 06:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Nolbag View Post
WoW only release LFR with Dragon Soul and it's hardly a raid difficulty more of a snooze mode.
I could have sworn LFR was in for Firelands, not sure. Yes, LFR was definitely boring but so is storymode EC.

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
07.21.2012 , 10:19 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by aurellian View Post
I don't understand this logic. It seems to me that "content" is classified only as endgame raids when it comes to the original poster's stance. While I think that is flawed logic, I won't go into that right now. What I will say instead is this game launched with only 1 endgame raid: Eternity Vault. About 3 months later we got Karaga's Palace, and about 3 months after that we got Explosive Conflict. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are only 3 endgame operations right now. that means basically every 3 months we're getting an ENTIRELY NEW operation. Exactly how fast do you want them to push out new "content"? People keep pointing to WoW as the standard for "content" release rate, but there was a 10 month gap between the release of the final raid in Wrath of the Lich King and the release of Cataclysm. I mean, how can anyone be saying that SWTOR isn't releasing "content" fast enough? The game has had 3 major "content" releases in 7 months! Not even Rift is releasing "content" that fast!
It isn't flawed logic. Flashpoints and daily quest areas are not content for a lot of people. I am fine if I am with the minority that says they haven't done a HM FP since 1st month of release. It isn't fun and enjoyable to me and there is no reward. Does that mean I only do things for rewards? Nope, not at all. I just prefer to do large scale Operations at the 16 man level.

Again, what people fail to understand is while we got new content every 3 months, the content itself was low in number of bosses and easy as pie.

EV - 5 bosses
KP - 5 bosses
EC - 4 bosses + Nightmare Pilgrim

In a 4 hour raid period on Tuesday, with the lag, we clear NP and EC in under 3 hours. This includes forcing ourself into a new instance and reclearing trash. It has been on farm for months. 1.2 was released in April, so shouldn't we be seeing some new content now that 3 months is here? April, May, June, and this is end of July....

An interesting take on this whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvbSc...5F4190804087D3
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Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
07.21.2012 , 10:21 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by aurellian View Post
I don't understand this logic. It seems to me that "content" is classified only as endgame raids when it comes to the original poster's stance. While I think that is flawed logic, I won't go into that right now. What I will say instead is this game launched with only 1 endgame raid: Eternity Vault. About 3 months later we got Karaga's Palace, and about 3 months after that we got Explosive Conflict. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are only 3 endgame operations right now. that means basically every 3 months we're getting an ENTIRELY NEW operation. Exactly how fast do you want them to push out new "content"? People keep pointing to WoW as the standard for "content" release rate, but there was a 10 month gap between the release of the final raid in Wrath of the Lich King and the release of Cataclysm. I mean, how can anyone be saying that SWTOR isn't releasing "content" fast enough? The game has had 3 major "content" releases in 7 months! Not even Rift is releasing "content" that fast!
Well first off... the first content release was just stuff that didnt make it to launch. It was additional bosses to an already existing raid zone. They had been working on it since beta. The second major update included EC and it didnt include NiM mode. The third update was all quality of life that should have been in at launch.

I would not say that there have been 3 "major" content releases. 1 release was stuff that didnt make launch. 1 release was a good content update. The last release didnt include any "content". So you are basically 7 months of Bioware being behind and 1 content update. Thats not alot.

Sorry but Rifts content updates were far better then ToRs thus far. They have included more content, better content and at a faster rate.

RichyYoung's Avatar


RichyYoung
07.21.2012 , 10:50 AM | #18
I agree it needs something, half my guilds stopped playing now and quite frankly I too can't be bothered that much any more. I'll still keep the sub going, but I haven't logged in at all this week..

Callianna's Avatar


Callianna
07.21.2012 , 10:53 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by aurellian View Post
I don't understand this logic. It seems to me that "content" is classified only as endgame raids when it comes to the original poster's stance. While I think that is flawed logic, I won't go into that right now. What I will say instead is this game launched with only 1 endgame raid: Eternity Vault. About 3 months later we got Karaga's Palace, and about 3 months after that we got Explosive Conflict. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are only 3 endgame operations right now. that means basically every 3 months we're getting an ENTIRELY NEW operation. Exactly how fast do you want them to push out new "content"? People keep pointing to WoW as the standard for "content" release rate, but there was a 10 month gap between the release of the final raid in Wrath of the Lich King and the release of Cataclysm. I mean, how can anyone be saying that SWTOR isn't releasing "content" fast enough? The game has had 3 major "content" releases in 7 months! Not even Rift is releasing "content" that fast!
Four months going on five months to kill 4 bosses on two modes is too long. If it was 7 bosses then it would be more acceptable but it's not. Nightmare was supposed to be released shortly after EC released and it still has not been. The only response we ever get from BW is "soon", well soon can mean this month, next month, in 3 months or next year. I am like the OP I play to raid, I do not pvp , I don't run FPs, I don't do dailies and am tried of playing alts. I would like some new content like NM mode EC and am tired of the "soon" response. How hard can it possibly be to rework 4 bosses to NM mode. BW didn't even bother to do the Q & A this week, guess they ran out of fluff questions to answer lol.