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Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

Ronxz's Avatar


Ronxz
07.20.2012 , 07:19 AM | #1
So my guild and I have been talking about this over the past few weeks. We used to be a big pvp guild before 1.3 but since the changes none of us really want to play anymore, we just watch as either hackers run rampant or we lose constantly. Yet we all have alts and absolutely love the pvp in level 10-49 and will spend hours running warzones on our alts to the point several have stopped doing quests once their alt gets into the 40s because they are trying to AVOID level 50 pvp. So we spent some time trying to figure out the difference.

The biggest one we found was that from 10-49 gear really doesn't play a major difference. When we looked at the past expertise bonus we also saw expertise was a straight % buff. 20% increase to damage, healing, and reduction to damage whereas now the difference is significantly skewed in favor of damage based classes. In essence if you have a lot of expertise you kill faster but don't get as much of a healer or damage reduction. I'd like to see us go back to the straight line increase over the tiered system, at least try it on the PTS, so we could see if it helped make the games more fun again. Any other thoughts or observations?
-Ronxz
"In Pace Decus, In Bello Praesidium"
Guildleader of Anthology, High Priest of the Bacon, Godfather of Middle-Earth, and Sith Overlord.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
07.20.2012 , 07:25 AM | #2
I cannot stand 10-49 on my healers (have a 26 imp and 35 pub) mainly because when you call an inc the whole team leaves the node and you pretty much just swap nodes all game. All I see are maras/pts/snipers I think I have played one game this week with an actual tank who actually used his guard on me. Also my biggest issue is no one taunts or uses CC's or breaks them.

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
07.20.2012 , 07:30 AM | #3
No idea. I think that lowbie warzones are immensely less fun. Far too dependent on the randomness of levels you get in your warzone. Time to kill is faaaaar less, partly because there are virtually no healers. People generally have absolutely no clue whatsoever how to play the warzones and make mistakes that are so dumb it's absolutely mind boggling.

I quite truthfully get so incredibly frustrated in lowbie warzones that it isn't fun in the slightest.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
<I AM LEGEND>
Prophecy of the Five

TapSumBatt's Avatar


TapSumBatt
07.20.2012 , 07:34 AM | #4
I think you are on to something here, I also loved PvP up to the point 50. Now dont get me wrong Im far from horrible and my 50 is geared with 50% BH 50% WH fully augmented.

I still find doing WZ while levelling is much more fun.
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kitsinni's Avatar


kitsinni
07.20.2012 , 07:34 AM | #5
Expertise doesn't give you a bonus damage on other people with the same amount of expertise. If you have 1200 and they have 1200 it is the same as you both having 0.

This is why people hate 50 when they start if you have 1000 expertise and they have 1350 you are fighting someone as if you have 0 and they have 350.

<50 PvP is more fun for a lot of people because it is not even close to as competitive, you can do well without any real PvP skill or gear and you end up fighting level 14's with almost no talents.
Okin

TapSumBatt's Avatar


TapSumBatt
07.20.2012 , 07:39 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I cannot stand 10-49 on my healers (have a 26 imp and 35 pub) mainly because when you call an inc the whole team leaves the node and you pretty much just swap nodes all game. All I see are maras/pts/snipers I think I have played one game this week with an actual tank who actually used his guard on me. Also my biggest issue is no one taunts or uses CC's or breaks them.
I love it on my Operative healer (lvl 24). You'd have to play more adaptive, you can't just sit your butt on a node, scream when people come then be dissapointed at your team.

Use your skills to heal them instead of solo guarding things and you'll win with pure muscle instead.
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Darth_Acherus's Avatar


Darth_Acherus
07.20.2012 , 07:44 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by kitsinni View Post
Expertise doesn't give you a bonus damage on other people with the same amount of expertise. If you have 1200 and they have 1200 it is the same as you both having 0.

This is why people hate 50 when they start if you have 1000 expertise and they have 1350 you are fighting someone as if you have 0 and they have 350.

<50 PvP is more fun for a lot of people because it is not even close to as competitive, you can do well without any real PvP skill or gear and you end up fighting level 14's with almost no talents.
The amount of damage reduced by expertise is less than the damage increase of the same number.
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Jung Ma - Alosa 50 Commando <Alpha Company> (Retired)

cycao's Avatar


cycao
07.20.2012 , 07:56 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TapSumBatt View Post
I love it on my Operative healer (lvl 24). You'd have to play more adaptive, you can't just sit your butt on a node, scream when people come then be dissapointed at your team.

Use your skills to heal them instead of solo guarding things and you'll win with pure muscle instead.
When I call out an inc Its not me that's defending I always keep my eyes on the other points as it bothers me when no one calls it out. I am not an idiot so I don't solo guard nodes as a healer I only do that on my main which is a tank.

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
07.20.2012 , 08:02 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Acherus View Post
The amount of damage reduced by expertise is less than the damage increase of the same number.
That's because it is necessary to have it be so in order for equal expertise ratings to balance out due to math.

I will try to illustrate it with some round numbers to make the concept simple.

First, you need to understand how expertise factors into combat. When player A attacks player B, it does this little formula:

Damage * (PlayerA Increase) * (PlayerB Reduction).

Now the increase and reduction are percentages. So, if player A has a 25% damage boost, and player B has a 20% reduction, the formula looks like this:

Damage * 1.25 * .8

Now if you think about it for a second, you'll realize that if we take a number and use exactly the same percentage to increase and decrease it, it won't wind up back at its original value, because once we've increased it, the same percentage of the new, higher number will be larger than the original increase.

For example, if we increase 100 by 25%, we get 125. Now, if we decrease 125 by 25%, we won't wind up back at 100 again, because 25% of 125 is more than 25% of 100. So,

100 *1.25 * .75 = 93.75

See? It doesn't go back to 100 because when we increase it, we are increasing it by 25, but when we decrease it, 25% of 125 is actually not 25 - it's 31.25.

The long and the short of it is that if we want equal values of expertise to balance out perfectly, then we need our increase and reduction values to be such that they meet this formula:

1 = (1+Increase/100) * (1-Reduction/100)

Thus, for example, 1284 expertise gives an damage boost of 23.85% and a reduction of 19.26%. If we use them to modify some damage number, say, 1000, we'll see that in the end, we end up back at 1000.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
<I AM LEGEND>
Prophecy of the Five

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
07.20.2012 , 08:05 AM | #10
Most likely because you're facerolling people who are low levels. Everyone mistakes winning for fun, but gear up, find a good team, and you'll see what actual competition is like in rateds.

FYI if you don't know why healing gets less of a boost in PVP than damage and damage reduction it's because you're not supposed to keep 4 people alive in PVP, but you are required to do so in PVE.

Maybe do a quick search before opening new threads as there are probably 20 threads about this in the first 5 pages in the PVP forums.
I have opinions and stuff