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Hard Mode Operations Group Finder


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.05.2012 , 01:03 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Meirv View Post
kk thnx. i jus happen to have another question. My character is in full battlemaster gear. is that good enough for hard mode ops?
All that expertise has a considerable stat loss in other areas. I just fiddled with askmrrobot for a Commando dps build.

Full Columi:
18k health
990 damage
400 bonus damage
1516 aim
31% crit
72% surge

Full Battlemaster
16k health
960 damage
370 bonus damage
1391 aim
34% crit
70% surge

If you really knew the mechanics and were with a good group, you could pull it off, I suppose.

I would recommend gearing your PVE set instead.

Dalethus's Avatar


Dalethus
07.05.2012 , 03:50 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Meirv View Post
kk thnx. i jus happen to have another question. My character is in full battlemaster gear. is that good enough for hard mode ops?
I mean, theoretically you can but I would strongly advise against it. The reason being that the expertise that you get from the PvP gear does absolutely nothing for you in PvE. It's strictly player damage/healing/damage reduction.

Nindoriel's Avatar


Nindoriel
07.14.2012 , 06:09 AM | #13
I don't get why they don't put in Explosive Conflict in the group finder. How about a gear check? Or put in a group finder version of the operation.

Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
07.14.2012 , 07:38 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
I don't get why they don't put in Explosive Conflict in the group finder. How about a gear check? Or put in a group finder version of the operation.
Because Explosive Conflict is, relative to the other Storymode Operations, insanely difficult and intentionally so. I'd actually say it is harder than Nightmare KP/EV. It really is something that Pugging is a recipe for disaster with. If you have 4 people in a guild and you get 4 randoms from the fleet to finish the group and everyone has voice then it is doable but a pure LFG group? No. No chance.

As for doing HM EV/KP in Battlemaster - it's perfectly fine and doable. Yes, Columi gear has a slight edge but it isn't significant enough to prevent you clearing the content and we've run groups with 3 in BM (or worse) with no difficulties. As most PVPers will have at least a couple of bits of War Hero alongside their Battlemaster those pieces balance out the difference (especially if augmented.) PVP gear is perfectly fine for HM EV/KP as long as you know how to play the class and not to stand in stupid things.

Nindoriel's Avatar


Nindoriel
07.14.2012 , 08:12 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetou View Post
Because Explosive Conflict is, relative to the other Storymode Operations, insanely difficult and intentionally so. I'd actually say it is harder than Nightmare KP/EV. It really is something that Pugging is a recipe for disaster with. If you have 4 people in a guild and you get 4 randoms from the fleet to finish the group and everyone has voice then it is doable but a pure LFG group? No. No chance.

As for doing HM EV/KP in Battlemaster - it's perfectly fine and doable. Yes, Columi gear has a slight edge but it isn't significant enough to prevent you clearing the content and we've run groups with 3 in BM (or worse) with no difficulties. As most PVPers will have at least a couple of bits of War Hero alongside their Battlemaster those pieces balance out the difference (especially if augmented.) PVP gear is perfectly fine for HM EV/KP as long as you know how to play the class and not to stand in stupid things.
I know that it's harder, that's why I suggested to put in an easier version of it.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.14.2012 , 09:32 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
I know that it's harder, that's why I suggested to put in an easier version of it.
I disagree with this strongly.

Difficult content should only be doable by skilled players in good coordination with one another.

Remember that there are very good players who are in guilds and work together and can complete HM Ops.

Having difficult content that you can't pug encourages you to get a group of like-minded people.

Note: This opinion coming from someone who only started TOR for the single-player content until he found out how fun it was to get a guild and do end-game content with them.

Nindoriel's Avatar


Nindoriel
07.14.2012 , 10:58 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
I disagree with this strongly.

Difficult content should only be doable by skilled players in good coordination with one another.
.
That wouldn't change at all. You just have one more difficulty available. If you don't want to do it on an easy setting, do it on hard. Nobody is taking that away from you.


Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
Having difficult content that you can't pug encourages you to get a group of like-minded people.
It didn't. It just gave me one less operation to do and a reason to not continue my subscription. It's not just about finding a group, it's also about getting gear to get there. I'm playing MMOs for 4 years now, mainly SWTOR, LOTRO and WOW - and no, it doesn't encourage me to find a group. It's frustrating to find a group, if it takes hours and doesn't even work in the end, because there's that one tank missing, and the group slowly breaks apart because of it. In every MMO I've played in the last 4 years, I have done this dozens of times, and at one point I've had enough.

It's ok if you like to do that. I don't mind. But this is no reason to not introduce an easier version for the group finder, so that people, who don't want to possibly search for hours for a group, can still do it. That's the whole purpose of a group finder. To exclude just one raid doesn't make any sense. Especially the current tier should be available.

I like this game, but hours of waiting are not fun.

FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
07.14.2012 , 01:41 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
I don't get why they don't put in Explosive Conflict in the group finder. How about a gear check? Or put in a group finder version of the operation.
It's not gear that's the main problem, I've seen well geared players in SM not knowing their roles especially tanks not kitting bosses correctly (i.e. for fabricator in KP) and even seen some people doing stupid things like running into the lava pit full of dogs in EV just before gharg and when revived running on straight to gharg without waiting for people to ready up without knowing tactics.

I think for group finder there needs to be some sort of skill scoring before you progress on to each operation, maybe even some sort of training op before you can do the story modes then having to finish all the SM's before progressing on to HM and so on.

The problem is (and was probably before GF with pug groups) skill and experience.
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
Thats no moon... thats a CARTEL COIN!

Nindoriel's Avatar


Nindoriel
07.15.2012 , 03:56 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by FlyinSpaghetti View Post
It's not gear that's the main problem, I've seen well geared players in SM not knowing their roles especially tanks not kitting bosses correctly (i.e. for fabricator in KP) and even seen some people doing stupid things like running into the lava pit full of dogs in EV just before gharg and when revived running on straight to gharg without waiting for people to ready up without knowing tactics.

I think for group finder there needs to be some sort of skill scoring before you progress on to each operation, maybe even some sort of training op before you can do the story modes then having to finish all the SM's before progressing on to HM and so on.

The problem is (and was probably before GF with pug groups) skill and experience.
If the problem is skill and experience, then they are only going to get that by doing that operation. Making it hard for them to get into that operation will only work against that. Something like a skill score is impossible. How would you increase that? By successfully beating bosses? First of all that doesn't tell anyone if you're really a good player or even if you understand the mechanics of that boss. Second of all, how can you increase that score, if you need it to be at a certain level to enter the operation.

It's like it was in WoW with gear and achievement requirements. If somebody wanted you to have gear, that you could only get in that raid, or the achievement for completing the raid, it was hard for new players to even get that, because the groups that you needed to get into to get them required that you would already have them.

WoWs raid finder sets a pretty good example of how they can teach you how the bosses work. It's very intuitive and it works as a training ground to teach you the basics. That only works in WoW because the difficulty is a bit lower and you can get the right gear for that raid in like a day.

Brimmer's Avatar


Brimmer
12.08.2012 , 06:39 PM | #20
I've been here since open beta, played every flashpoint and hard mode version of them, clocked many hours. Though my guild isn't huge so it's nearly impossible to get groups for ops; so I normally pug everything. Majority of the time I happen to find an LFM for OPS, or get answered by my LFGs. it's a guild group, that will boot you out of the group for absolutely no good reasons. Such as a guild member of theirs just logged on, and they want them, even though the spot was filled. (this happens a lot)

I find that pugs are 100% better than guild groups because of this. Majority of pugs I'm in can handle the content fine, including ops; hard mode included.

So my question is....Why must you make it so bloody hard for people to find groups Bioware? It's not remotely funny, your sick little joke you play on us with the group finder. Yes I would agree problems would be caused if the hard mode versions and harder SM ops were on the group finder.....for like the first or second week. The people would improve, and work better together.

But no.....

You idea is to blacklist all medium / small guilds that are unable to get the numbers from the content, so as you can maintain what? Oh yeah there isn't anything to maintain. Allowing pugs would only benefit the pug players. BUT WAIT! Repair costs could annoy players, since it would typically be more than a guild run. Who cares? If they're willing to pug they're willing for the repairs. So why blacklist us from content we're paying $15 a month for?

It's immature and just rude. If you're afraid of pugs wiping make it a tier system, where you must beat the SM prior to HM. Then onto a harder SM ops, to it's hard mode. etc.

There is no reason for us not to be able to queue for more Ops....
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