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Community Q&A Thread Blog Discussion: July 13th, 2012

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Community Q&A Thread Blog Discussion: July 13th, 2012
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AllisonBerryman's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 01:59 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hello everyone,

Please discuss this week's Community Q&A blog in this thread!

Meanerr's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 02:58 PM | #2
Low/lower cost field respec.

This will alleviate so many issues (and griping) between balancing out PvE and PvP.
Good players carry their team. Bad players QQ on forums.

Ntranced's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 03:16 PM | #3
So the problem is never the class design, it is either bad players or too high expectations? So basically L2P? (or learn to re-roll). Am I reading that right?

Coldin's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 03:18 PM | #4
Oh! They picked my question!

Wasn't really the answer I was hoping for though. While Operatives/Scoundrels get some tools to stay within melee range, they don't get a lot to make up the distance. Sleep dart is only available in stealth. Flashbang and the one root/snare is 10 meter range. Stun is melee only. I'm not really aware of any other roots/snares that an Operative gets, besides a slow in the shared tree.

Glad to hear the devs are looking and talking about it though. Leaves me a little hope we might see improvement someday.

Vegabond's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 03:25 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Ntranced View Post
So the problem is never the class design, it is either bad players or too high expectations? So basically L2P? Am I reading that right?
Basically L2P and make the best of the current character according to the main patch, adapt and change tactics

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 03:29 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Ntranced View Post
So the problem is never the class design, it is either bad players or too high expectations? So basically L2P? Am I reading that right?
Yeah. Pretty much. And for the most part from what I have seen in-game and on the forums, I agree with him.
Referral link to claim your new or returning player rewards.
Ezs'ra: Sith Mara

geezy's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 04:36 PM | #7
In regards to infil shadows.. LOL! I was an infiltration shadow since early access and a pretty good one imo. Pre 1.3 i was king of 1v1s and now ... ! I recently when onto youtube and rewatched some earlier vids on infil shadows and those guys in mosly champ gear were bursting more than what i can do now in full augmented WH. I understand Bioware raised the TTK, but if a dev says we're supposed to be a hit and run class, does that not mean we should pick a fight ( ala 1v1 ) kill him asap and then get out? or is it that i must jump someone burst down to maybe 40% and then saber strike him for a while before running away?? Best we can do now is have as much utility as possible for our team as balance and put out some sustainable deepz. I am honestly really saddened as I do not enjoy playing my MAIN anymore, so much for feeling heroic!
Jaarvis - <Sith A Less> - Conqueror Shadow - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Rogoo's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 05:50 PM | #8
ROFL at the L2P comment about infiltration / deception specs.
You are not your rig specs. You are not your K/D ratio. You are not your character level. You are not your sig.
Gunslinger / Shadow / Sentinel / Powertech
The Hero engine: a 2005 technology bringing 2013 rigs to their knees.

Vitas's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 08:24 PM | #9
Any new world needs to feel different from the worlds around it (in game terms, the worlds with level ranges just above or below its own), and it needs to push the overall themes of the story forward. So we might start with basic requirements like "We want to show the Republic going on the offensive," and "We want a wilderness world, since we've done a lot of urbanized planets lately." Defining these basic requirements isn't too difficult--they can usually be determined with an hour or two of group discussion.
After that, it gets more difficult. Figuring out the details of the world (including whether we want a canon planet to fill the role, or if we want to create a new planet altogether) takes much longer, but the basic criteria stay the same: Does the backstory fit the requirements outlined? Does the planet sound fun to play through? Is it practical? (If the art department can't build a planet full of, say, 90-foot-tall giants who use buildings as melee weapons, then that idea isn't practical, no matter what writing may want). Elements that contribute to the overall goals of the planet are retained; elements that don't get put to one side.

Writing, art and world design work together closely during this process, and if all goes well, we get a planet that has a clear purpose while being broad enough to support a wide variety of interesting missions.
Well that's a bit sad. I mean sure there'd be worlds which might help either the Republic or the Empire but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be useful. As you can see in this thread, I've listed all the worlds which would be eligable and what significance they have during this era:

I mean I would love to be able to explore a world which has little technology or no spaceports just to explore, fight and look for resources or maybe it has some sort of significance just for the player. Just like how in Empire Strikes Back Luke visited Dagobah, it wasn't significant to the Empire or Rebel Alliance but just to Luke.
If you'd like to see more Explorable Worlds in Star Wars: The Old Republic,
then head to this thread and discuss, list and vote which you'd like to see and explore in the game:

IronmanSS's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 08:51 PM | #10
BobertCole: Could you elaborate please on what role you see deception Assassins playing? Are they close to operating in the way that was envisioned?

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for.

In the case of Deception Assassins, we see and hear about a lot of players expecting to go toe-to-toe with tough enemies. They expect that since they're a melee spec, they should have the survivability they need to withstand the frontlines. That's true for some melee specs, but that's not what Deception Assassins were designed for. Deception should epitomize "hit-and-run" and "lone wolf" gameplay. Obviously that's less the case in Operations boss encounters, but if this is a question of sustained DPS, the short answer is that they hit within the same 5% "grace window" targeted by every DPS spec in the game.

In solo and PvP environments, Deception is meant to be a high burst, high mobility, shutdown spec. When played properly, they provide some of the highest burst and highest pressure in the game. However, Deception is not a great partner. He can't take hits, his shutdown requires that he set the pace of the fight, and his escapes leave allies open and vulnerable to counterattacks. I say that, but I've seen players dash my expectations and turn Deception into a spectacular teammate. Unfortunately, I've seen many more players try to facetank and fail. Assassins have a great team support role - Darkness; they also have a great well-rounded, high utility role - Madness. We left Deception to take the opportunity to do something fun and very different, but that comes with the risk of missing player expectation. If you like Deception and you want to pull it off, my suggestion is that you pick your fights and plan ahead, but I'd also warn that Deception is a spec of extremes - I would not describe it as "well-rounded."
Dear Mr. Peckenpaugh,

I wanted to apologize on behalf of all the Deception Assassins who "dashed your expectations" by somehow managing to contribute to their team's success despite your design direction for this spec. You state that you intentionally designed Deception spec to be "not a great partner", or translated from PR speak: a BAD team player. Unfortunately, all our current PvP content is "Team-Based" Warzones. So, you're essentially saying that you intend for Deception spec to be "bad" at end-game PvP (rated Warzones), and that if we don't like it then there are other more viable Team/Utility specs (darkness/madness) for us to choose from. Don't worry, most of us already figured that out. Check your "logs and metrics" for % of active player assassins who are specced primarily Deception compared to Darkness or Madness (or Both). I’m sure you’ll find that most players have migrated to specs that give them greater opportunity to contribute to their team’s success in Team Objective based Warzones.

And that is just the PvP portion of the game, In PvE we have the choice to spec Tank (darkness) or DPS (madness/deception), however it has been statistically proven with parsed combat logs on multiple Ops boss encounters that Madness spec provides better sustained DPS given equal gearing and player skill. So again, why would you choose Deception spec when there is a superior alternative available in PvE? Also, if Deception spec is within 5% of your “DPS Target” (I’ll assume -5%), I don’t want to know what the Marauders are drinking because there’s over a 10% delta sustained DPS between these ACs.

I’m not here to whine, nor do I think that my preferred spec is unsalvageable, but hearing “it’s fine L2P” from the Senior Designer is NOT acceptable when enough people are repeatedly asking this question for it to be part of the weekly Q&A. Deception Sins are not looking for a push to the OP FOTM club, we are simply asking to have equal viability in PvE and PvP when compared to the other trees in our AC. Perhaps we could talk about reasonable solutions to the main issue that you mentioned of “being a poor partner”, and rather than change our gameplay style or DPS level we could get a tool we’re missing: group utility.

There is currently no reason to bring a Deception Sin over a Sniper or Marauder who have the same or better straight DPS plus group utility (armor pen, trauma debuff, bloodthirst, etc.) Something as simple as modifying Surging charge to place an armor penetration debuff on our target instead of giving this talented buff (via charge mastery) only to ourselves would begin to resolve issues in both PvE and PvP. We would have a group contribution that would benefit the WZ team focusing a target or Ops group fighting a boss, bringing us in line with other DPS with similar group utility benefits like Snipers and Marauders.

Also, being a “hit and run” design without the ability to “run” very often seems odd. Why is the talent for reduced CD on force speed and break rooting effects in the Tank tree again? Why is the CD for our “bail/vanish” ability roughly 3x as long as a Marauders? Perhaps if leaving combat during a WZ in order to access our stealth wasn’t harder than downing HM Kephess we would already have the tools we needed. Perhaps giving Deception Sins a 10 min CD that resets our other CDs (think Prep) would give us the tools we need to work this “hit and run” vision without allowing us the OP ability to bring those tools to every encounter.

That’s a few ideas right there from a guy who doesn’t get paid to think of this stuff. I’m sure the Assassin/Shadow community and your junior designers can do even better if they try. But, they DO need to try. Deception is very much in the same place that Carnage spec was before it was addressed, when it was clearly inferior to Annihilation, and it was buffed and brought in line and is now a viable choice, although the 2 Mara specs remain unique and have individual strengths and weaknesses. All we are asking for is a logical reason to play Deception spec. If you can do 85% of the DPS, have double the survivability, and gain team utility (ranged IC AOE, guard, pull, IC CC) by speccing Darkness/Madness hybrid why would you choose Deception? If you can DPS Ops bosses more efficiently as pure Madness spec why would you choose Deception?

You wouldn’t, which is why I am no longer providing your team with the “metrics and logs” that demonstrate that the spec is fine. Is it because I like Darkness or Madness better? No. It’s because they flat out ARE better for both end-game PvE and PvP, and until Deception becomes a vialble choice, your pool of Deception player's data is going to continue to dwindle.

Former Deception Assassin
Sulvira - Sith Assassin <E>