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Non-max level Flashpoints and LFG

MouseNoFour's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 06:07 AM | #1
I think there needs to be bigger incentives for doing a flashpoint when not max level.

As of right now - LFG works. But the problem isnt so much LFG itself, its the rewards for completing a flashpoint via LFG. Or more precisely, the players themselves who just arent interested in doing a flashpoint when they are more interested in planetary missions and class missions. Or even pvp.

Even if you spent the credits on maxing out flashpoint experience perks - which im sure most would not bother - its just not enough to get people in the queue.

Do a search for a flashpoint's level bracket, and you will see a massive number of players online. The players are THERE. They just arent queueing in the LFG tool. Why? My guess would be that the incentives for doing a flashpoint just arent there.

If it isnt experience - with the 1.3 bonuses to XP from character perks, then what is it? Loot? The loot system is much better than it was back when it started. It even automatically denies loot to those who cannot fully use it, ensuring anything that is designed for you either gets automatically given, or you roll fairly with players who also can use it. What about accomplishments? Most flashpoints have satisfying story in them, so it must be something else.

Truth of the matter is this - non-max level flashpoints just arent interesting to players. They simply dont want to do them. Of course it does not help the matter that doing a flashpoint with LFG, you exit back at the fleet and must spend some time getting back to where you were in the galaxy.

Wightvixen's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 08:23 AM | #2
I must say that the incentives would have to be pretty stupendous to entice me to spend around half my usual available playtime re-doing content I've seen before. After the first time in a flashpoint, I'd much rather be doing new quests, and seeing new areas than repeating a flashpoint ad nauseum. As things stand I see no compelling reason to do them more than once. Perhaps it would be different if they were substantially shorter, or the rewards were more tangible, or guaranteed, instead of pot-luck.

nbayer's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 08:55 AM | #3
Personally I would queue for flashpoints while leveling but it's going to drop me at the fleet when it ends. I don't want to run back to my class quest each time the queue pops.

Thross's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 10:44 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by nbayer View Post
Personally I would queue for flashpoints while leveling but it's going to drop me at the fleet when it ends. I don't want to run back to my class quest each time the queue pops.

Furinol's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 11:15 AM | #5
Two things keep me from running flashpoints while I level:

1) The "dumped off at the fleet" issue. Travel and load times etc just make this suck...

2) I am probably in the minority here but while I love the story driven quests etc while leveling I really don't like story driven "dungeons". I genuinely liked blowing up heroics etc in WoW but flashpoints in SWTOR just feel disjointed- not to mention you can never get a group of folks that all agree on the spacebar.

Does a "daily" flashpoint system exist in SWTOR? I'm still relatively new.

Worldviewdamage's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 12:54 PM | #6
Thanks for posting this!

I've been trying to level my new Operative healer primarily through instances and class quests, with a side order of Space Quests. Before Group Finder there was pretty much no way that I was going to get a group together for a low-level instance on my server. So it has been a lot of fun to get to see this content as it was intended to be seen... and to flush Mandalorians out an airlock, of course!

That said, I see a few big flaws in the system right now that is making it a bit painful:
- Experience point gain / hour is too low except when you have both Daily Quests (Group Finder and Emerging Conflicts).
- Rewards are quite weak, except when you have both Daily Quests.
- You don't automatically get the Emerging Conflict Daily quest assigned to you when you enter the instance for the first time that day, you either need to go to Imp Fleet or hope someone will share with you (I now do this as a matter of course when entering a Flashpoint).
- You get dumped back at the Fleet when you are done. (They indicated they are going to fix this, at least.) This makes doing your Class quests really hard.

I'm not sure if Bioware wants these, but here's a few solutions that don't seem that hard:
- (don't dump folks at fleet after using Group Finder)
- Make the Group Finder quests and the Emerging Conflicts quests infinitely repeatable below level 50 (or at whatever level makes sense.. I know they want to limit Black Hold and Daily Commendation creation so keep those as Dailies).
- Alternatively: significantly boost the XP, Credit and add a Commendation reward for the already repeatable Flashpoint main quest.
- Either automatically grant the Emerging Conflict quest or place a quest-giving box inside the instance. Don't make folks go to Fleet to get it.
- A pipe dream, I suspect, but give folks some way to discover flight points other than manually running / riding there.

I suspect that this will fix the other major fault of group finder as described to me by folks I run with: lack of heal spec healers. If they can give us healers the ability to level up AS HEALERS without it being really painfully slow most of the time they might see a few more of us out there.

Chaqen's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 01:14 PM | #7
I find running the group finder on my sorc healer to be quite effective. I usually only have to wait a couple of minutes if that to get a que (level 14-29 range). I have bought the experience bonuses and usually gain a level every 2 to 4 flashpoints; i usually take a leader role and push people to finish the flashpoint as fast as possible.

I plan on trying to avoid as much questing as possible, and only do my class quests when i am in fear of them going grey. I avoid most of the quest content because i have some of the quests already five to seven times, and really dont care to do it again.

When it comes down to experience per hour, it is really dependent on me logging in peak hours and playing that character; if i do so, the exp per hour is far better then PvP, and the majority of planets i been on.

I believe more and more people will start to use flashpoints to level up, after they are working on their third, fourth, and fifth alt through the same content.

MouseNoFour's Avatar

07.13.2012 , 08:34 PM | #8
I find the LFG tool to be very effective, if only a little clunky - which is acceptable considering how new it is.

The big issue isnt whether it works, but how enticing it is to use it. Like i said, the players are there, they are online.

But how can Bioware make doing a flashpoint - or more to the point - actually queueing at all, something that players will want to do.

In a lot of MMO's - and im not going to point fingers here - do it quite well.

- You put yourself in the LFG tool, and continue on with your solo thing.

- You can group up, complete a zone group quest without it interfering with the LFG tool, and have it pop whilst your doing your own thing.

- The most you ever have to do to get the most benefit out of it, is to simply hit the queue button, and then accept the settings.

- Once it pops, you make your way - ending combat as soon as possible if you are fighting - to a location where you know you are relatively safe.

- Accept the phased group content and are instantly teleported to it.

- Any missions/quests that are relevant are already either accepted upon entering the phase, or are available right as you enter. Whats more, is the objectives of those missions/quests are all along the path that you are guaranteed to take, and handing the completed objectives in, are either to an npc at the end, or automatically completed once they are done.

- Once everything is done and you leave the phase, you arrive back exactly where you were when you queued.

Clamwacker's Avatar

07.14.2012 , 03:36 PM | #9
The biggest problem is that tanks don't seem to queue up for low level flashpoints much. Most days I do the pvp daily and 1 random flashpoint on my Jugg alt. I'm dps spec but still queue as tank and always get a run going in under 15 minutes. Tanking is easy enough even with a dps spec, though I'm rage starved a lot. I will probably have to change to a tank spec mid 40s though.

MouseNoFour's Avatar

07.14.2012 , 07:56 PM | #10
Another big problem is this: On my Mercenary, i decided to test out the flashpoint XP bonuses.

So i purchased every single flashpoint bonus under Character Perks. Every one of them. I then proceeded to respec Healer and do a bunch of flashpoints.

5 bars for 5 flashpoints. Pitiful XP gain. Why was it so low? Everyone - these were all pugs ive never played with before, meaning 5 x 3 other players - skipped over as many of the trash as possible to end the flashpoint as quickly as possible. Only 3/5 flashpoints did they even kill every boss AND finish the bonus missions.