The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

Interesting that after I made the posting, I read this article with an "expert" "confirming" that the MMO industry is stagnant. (from the angle of subscription)

http://www.incgamers.com/2012/07/mmo...-says-pachter/

I only agree with him conditionally. Subcription will peak but because of the factors I mentioned.

If there is a breakthrough design, with a new MMO re-inventing the industry, then subscription level will increase tremendously.

Another thing to add is that WOW's 10 to 12mil subs are not just North American subscription but a combination of NA, EU, China and South Korea. Most other games are really just only relying on NA + EU subs.

I agree. The customers ultmately are the winners if a company refuses to deal with thier problems with thier products. Sure some customers can be unreasonable, but when you have a large grp of them who are not, the issue is not on thier part, but the company's failures to listen to them. And the foruns are only one small way for players to get thier attention, the more important factors are the large groups of players who leave.

Keep in mind, WoW has 253 servers in NA alone. And most of them are med to high populations. Sure those donot make up the majority of the 10.2 million subs they have, but it is still a large a group of players. More than some think. And TOR total subs will inc all thier player base world wide. Not just in NA and Europe.

Great Post OP

I want to add in that the mob density in TOR is way too high. I just left nar shaddaa, and even though its locations all had different themes, it all became one box of mobbs next to the other. The red light district for instance had artwork supporting the theme, but take two steps in any direction and you get generic mobs that could be from any part of nar shaddaa.

The zones lose their individuality when the player is unable to appreciate the atmosphere, always being harrassed by generic mob types every 5 feet.

Even on Taris, walk in any direction and regardless of what the ,much appreciated codex says you get mobs. Give us breathing room to explore the worlds and appreciate them. WoW was smart in making their locations iconic. I feel like I can't recognize anything in tor because every time I try to explore I get distracted /lost in a sea of mobs

Actually, having puzzles is actually a good thing. And SWTOR does have puzzles; how to get to that datacron is one of them.

TSW is actually trying to get away from a lot of the MMO stagnation. No levels, 1 realm with multiple dimentions; meaning I call myself Godzilla, NOBODY else can use that name - no matter what "homeworld" they choose. Even though my homeworld might be "AWESOME," I can still be in a guild that is on "L33T" and have friends on ANY of the other dimentions and play with them on-demand. I can also put something up for sell on the Auction House, and it is now up for sell on ALL dimentions, not just my "homeworld." EVE is taking another step forward.

Look-up "Dust 514" (PS3 / VITA only). Dust 514 is an MMOFPS (currently in beta) that interacts with the EVE MMO world (which I've never played). It is also a FREE download and F2P. Basically, in Dust 514, you are battling in w/e battle the people in EVE are battling; they control what battles you can join. You can't create anything, but you are a ground troop soldier in those battles; while the EVE players are fighting in space. You choose from the same alliances as in EVE; same star system map and all. So if you take over a planet, you take over someones planet in EVE; meaning you just affected A LOT of people. EVE just created a way for people to play their game, and not even know it :O

Now imagine if SWTOR combined with SWG in the same way EVE is doing with DUST 514... THAT'S thinking outside the box. In SWTOR, we are doing the quests, missions, etc... then on the fleet we hear "A battle has broken out on Belsavis." Then in SWG, they are there fighting on Belsavis. Then say if say The Empire takes it over, in SWTOR the quests / missions change based on that. Now imagine if you logout of SWTOR, and then are able to login to SWG (using your same account) and YOUR CHARACTER is there. OR in SWTOR, we get into a warzone, and what happens there is added to what happens in SWG.

MMO's are complex things, and a lot of factors come into play.

WoW was a game changer. The game itself wasn't, it was pretty much a straight clone of many other games, albeit done in a slick (but basic) fashion. What was different was the marketing, a huge budget, and aimed at players unfamiliar with the genre, just as home computer ownership and home broadband was taking off.

We're pretty much stuck with the trinity, I fear, though some games could broaden it somewhat (Hell, in DAoC I wanted tanks, heals, dps and petspammers for top level raids). The main reason for this is the players. Give players an open system where they can choose 50 skills from 500 and they'll numbercrunch til they find the best at aggro generation/damage mitigation/avoidance, the best at keeping others in the game alive, and the ones that do the highest damage. Then they'll insist on one of the former, one of the second, and as many as they can get of the last to be in their 'uber, optimal' groups. In other games I've sometimes gone with CC+DPS and either Tank or Healer. You can usually do this, but players don't want to risk it. Don't want to think of the number of times I've persuaded a group to go with what classes they can get and made it work by changing our strategy, but it's a very tough sell to most players.

The real problem though is different players like different things. Hell, tanking in SWTOR I feel squishy compared to other games. My DAoC Paladin could pull off amazing kills, I just needed a calendar to record how long they took. I love the indestructable feeling. Sure, it's great to be able to level as fast as a dpser, but it's not me. A game where we were all dps would be no fun at all.

I would love to see new character roles and types. For my money we lack decent CC and debuffer / buffer classes, which could be added. I'd love to see a Beastmaster character who could tame and use monsters we find (ala DAoC Sorceror). I'd like other things tried, would love a DAoC style Friar who healed by melee attacks! I also really wish there were three sides (for PvP reasons, though it cuts down on developer time per faction, which makes it expensive, if most players only see one faction), and that PvPer's would accept that PvP combat might not be perfectly balanced all the time, allowing factions to have different abilities, rather than being clones! I think this is a really backward step which came around WoW launch time.

Putting blame where if properly lies is exactly the right thing to do.

I'm pretty sure Blackardin is not a game designer/developer, so your point is misdirected. For that matter, if you are not a game designer, you are not qualified to speak for them. Which brings us back to Blackardins original point which I will quote and repost here because it is in fact accurate even though you don't like it and it probably stings a little to see it in writing:

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin

I've already given my opinion that it the players and not the industry that are the problem. This entire thread is a fine example. The people posting here are a very small minority that have anointed themselves experts in the video game industry to the point that they are debating the future of such.

People don't just log on and play games anymore, they have to dissect them and bloviate on and on ad nauseum about how it should be done. Its as if the inception of facebook and message boards have given people the idea that they know far more then they do, simply because they have a vehicle in which to express themselves.

I just thought I'd remind you all that you don't know squat about jack and are just voicing arm chair opinion based on your personal desire or tiny bubble of knowledge....not something that can, in any way, be considered a valid, knowledge based argument. You represent only yourself and may as well be giving your opinion on national politics. ;p

It would have worked very well if the game was actually good. But SOE screwed up big time with just about every aspect of it and the combat implimentation was awful. It felt low quality and half the content didn't even work.

BW have done a very good job with what we have in SWTOR so far and the story telling is about as good as we can have in an MMORPG. But it's not pushing any boundries on the gameplay side of things.

No MMO I can think of, appart from maybe Planetside 2 is trying to achieve something truely groundbreaking and new. I think the problem is people like EA not letting developers take risks with many new ideas, which is a shame :/

WoWs base wasn't some army of casuals who were drawn in with clever commercials, that came much much later. WoW sustained itself with players sick of EQ and the large fan base that Blizzard spent years earning with the Warcraft series.

WoW took the most popular MMO of the day and simply improved on EQs formula. Part of the reason company's haven't tried to be radically different is that even after all these years, no one has managed to do what WoW did.

That being, take the formula of the most popular MMO and take it up a notch.

I wouldn't say they really improved it. More like simplified it so the masses could understand it.

MMORPGs before wow were only something for more hardcore gamers (and generally people with a higher IQ :P) and they had a much smaller market.