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emperor palpatine and order 66

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
emperor palpatine and order 66

TKMaster's Avatar


TKMaster
07.12.2012 , 04:28 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Lodril View Post
I don't think the clones had to be 'tricked' at all. The Jedi are terrible leaders. Since they're usually the focus of the story, it's easy to identify with them, but if you take a step back, you can see why the clones wouldn't be thrilled with them anyway.

It's a modern military, yet the Jedi have them doing cavalry charges and running en masse at enemy emplacements. The Jedi go too... but the Jedi are nigh-invulnerable, able to sweet blaster fire aside and dodge with uncanny foresight. The clones they lead just get shot.

In AotC, Mace Windu gets a squad of specially trained commandos. What does he do with them? Do they sneak around, and catch the enemy where they're not looking? Nope; he leads these stealthy demolition experts on a madcap charge to the front lines.

The Jedi are endlessly confident and endlessly reckless. Yoda himself says as much. They answer not to the people of the Republic or any other authority, but instead to a mystical power beyond non-Jedi comprehension. Why should they get to throw people's lives away just because they can make rocks float in the air? Why should they be given command of armies when they have no experience or training in leading them?
Your gonna get it now....inb4jediworshipers.

Genuine's Avatar


Genuine
07.12.2012 , 04:36 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by HaleLightmight View Post
has anyone though about this topic?like really REALLY THOUGH about it?
because there is one thing i would like to know,how does emperor palpatine trick the clones into order 66?
like do the clones know about ,and the order was emplanted in their mind during growth.and if they did,how did obi wan and all the other jedi not sense it?or was it like "(emperor palpatine speaking) now listen you pathic fools,the jedi are traders to the republic,and you will gain their trust, then when i give the command,you will kill them.all of them." or is there some thing else going on and i'm just really clueless and dumb enogh to figure it out
?
there clones are given it by a type of bran washing when they are being educated
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pbraden's Avatar


pbraden
07.12.2012 , 05:49 AM | #13
He didn't trick them, only the chancellor had direct access to the Comm Channel he used in RotS to contact the clones, the clones were bred to follow orders without question from the chancellor, as such he was able to give the command without the Jedi even knowing.

Order 66: In the event of Jedi officers acting against the interests of the Republic, and after receiving specific orders verified as coming directly from the Supreme Commander (Chancellor), GAR commanders will remove those officers by lethal force, and command of the GAR will revert to the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) until a new command structure is established.

They were simply following orders...sort of like the mindless droids they'd spent 3 years fighting.

Quote from Wookieepedia: At 2100 hours local time, on the one thousandth, eighty-ninth day of the Clone Wars[1] (16:5:22), Palpatine retired to his private office in the Republic Executive Building, activated his comm unit and issued Order 66. He employed a channel that would make the authenticity of the order unquestionable, but ironically, the signal was encrypted using a Separatist code – one of the rare giveaways that he was in fact the hidden hand behind both sides of the war.

More info here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Order_66

The oldest Survivors of Order 66 were K'kruhk who became a member of the High Council during the time of the New Jedi Order approximately 100 years following the Battle of Endor, and A'sharad Hett, a Jedi Knight turned Sith Lord Darth Krayt who founded the One Sith, killed by Cade Skywalker.

A Neti Jedi Master also survived and served on the High Council with K'kruhk.

Forgon's Avatar


Forgon
07.12.2012 , 06:01 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by pbraden View Post
He didn't trick them, only the chancellor had direct access to the Comm Channel he used in RotS to contact the clones, the clones were bred to follow orders without question from the chancellor.
Correction: they were bred and trained to follow orders and the chain of command. At the top of the chain of command is the Supreme Commander. Through emergency powers gathered during the war, Palpatine ended up becoming the Supreme Commander of the GAR. Also, there is some debate over whether it was training, brain washing, or ingrained indoctrination through genetics.
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TheLordNashtah's Avatar


TheLordNashtah
07.12.2012 , 09:39 AM | #15
It was bred-in. in the movies the kamino-ans(idk how you spell it) told obi-wan that the clones are made to perfectly follow orders. And because Palpatine is the official leader of the republic(remember, he was granted the emergency powers that gave him complete control over the republic) , the clones will follow his every command. Plus I believe that Palpatine was planning this even before episode one.(edit: made this post before the person above me editted his~~)
give urself to the dark side

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
07.12.2012 , 09:45 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Lodril View Post
I don't think the clones had to be 'tricked' at all. The Jedi are terrible leaders. Since they're usually the focus of the story, it's easy to identify with them, but if you take a step back, you can see why the clones wouldn't be thrilled with them anyway.

It's a modern military, yet the Jedi have them doing cavalry charges and running en masse at enemy emplacements. The Jedi go too... but the Jedi are nigh-invulnerable, able to sweet blaster fire aside and dodge with uncanny foresight. The clones they lead just get shot.

In AotC, Mace Windu gets a squad of specially trained commandos. What does he do with them? Do they sneak around, and catch the enemy where they're not looking? Nope; he leads these stealthy demolition experts on a madcap charge to the front lines.

The Jedi are endlessly confident and endlessly reckless. Yoda himself says as much. They answer not to the people of the Republic or any other authority, but instead to a mystical power beyond non-Jedi comprehension. Why should they get to throw people's lives away just because they can make rocks float in the air? Why should they be given command of armies when they have no experience or training in leading them?
You know that nothing about that changed in the Empire, when Imperial Officers took command. (Well, the officers weren't at the front line, exept in heavy armored vehicles.) And the droids used exactly the same tactics.

It's not the Jedi's fault that military tactics in the Star Wars universe seem underdeveloped.

By the way the Jedi do answer to the Republic. They have sworn loyalty to the Republic long ago. You remember Obi-Wan? "Anakin, my allegience is with the Republic, with democracy!"

And who placed the Jedi in command of the clones? Who did it? Not the Jedi themselves. Either Palpatine or the Senate.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
07.12.2012 , 04:39 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
By the way the Jedi do answer to the Republic. They have sworn loyalty to the Republic long ago. You remember Obi-Wan? "Anakin, my allegience is with the Republic, with democracy!"
That, and after the New Sith Wars the Ruusan Reformations placed the Jedi Order under the purview of the Supreme Chancellor and the Judicial Department.
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Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
07.12.2012 , 06:34 PM | #18
Jedi can't read random lines of code inside a mind, only intentions.

Plus in Episode II, form Yoda himself "The Darkside now clouds everything" (or something along those lines).
With unity, comes strength...with strength, comes power...with power...comes obedience.....
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Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
..I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough.

Lodril's Avatar


Lodril
07.12.2012 , 07:50 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
You know that nothing about that changed in the Empire, when Imperial Officers took command. (Well, the officers weren't at the front line, exept in heavy armored vehicles.) And the droids used exactly the same tactics.
The droids were marshaled by accountants, and the clones by religious leaders, but the clones had the benefit of human intellect to figure out that they were terrible bosses and not be upset to lose them.

Not much changed, in the end, but the sense that the clones would have all rebelled against their proper chain of command in order to support the religious nutjobs who had been incompetently middle-managing them in the trenches is affording the Jedi far more personal charisma than I think most ever demonstrated.

HavocMaster's Avatar


HavocMaster
07.12.2012 , 08:35 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Lodril View Post
I don't think the clones had to be 'tricked' at all. The Jedi are terrible leaders. Since they're usually the focus of the story, it's easy to identify with them, but if you take a step back, you can see why the clones wouldn't be thrilled with them anyway.

It's a modern military, yet the Jedi have them doing cavalry charges and running en masse at enemy emplacements. The Jedi go too... but the Jedi are nigh-invulnerable, able to sweet blaster fire aside and dodge with uncanny foresight. The clones they lead just get shot.

In AotC, Mace Windu gets a squad of specially trained commandos. What does he do with them? Do they sneak around, and catch the enemy where they're not looking? Nope; he leads these stealthy demolition experts on a madcap charge to the front lines.

The Jedi are endlessly confident and endlessly reckless. Yoda himself says as much. They answer not to the people of the Republic or any other authority, but instead to a mystical power beyond non-Jedi comprehension. Why should they get to throw people's lives away just because they can make rocks float in the air? Why should they be given command of armies when they have no experience or training in leading them?
I agree with everything in this post! If you haven't, read all the Republic/Imperial Commando books by Karen Traviss. They are great reads, and really illustrate the plight of the clone spec forces, and give you a good point of view. This is why my sniper, while nearly all LS, takes DS to kill Sith, as often as he can. Some Jedi *Read: Bardan Jusik* are OK, but most of them are glory hounds. To quote Captain Ordo Skirata concerning Kenobi "Cody may think the sun shines out of his hear, but I think he's a glory hound who wastes to many men" (Not verbatim). The Jedi just need to get their heads out of their shebs and realize that they are leading a slave army. *End rant*
Cipher Nine out.