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What were the devs thinking??

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What were the devs thinking??

Kubernetic's Avatar


Kubernetic
07.11.2012 , 12:35 PM | #91
Completely disagree with almost every point made by the OP.

I understand the linearity. I understand why combat is the way it is, so we don't have Jedi one-slice-killing people left and right, and so other classes have a chance. I understand some of the time sinks and credit sinks. I like my companions in all of the stories so far, etc.

Unfortunately, it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

I fully support the idea of making the post-50 planets non-linear, and providing a lot more room for exploration and diverging from the "beaten path", but I totally understand the 1-50 game. I think they did a superb job.
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Maltuvion's Avatar


Maltuvion
07.11.2012 , 12:36 PM | #92
I sincerely hope you're trolling. If so, well played.

Quote: Originally Posted by bionamaster View Post
Opinion, not fact, OP.
Companions do have unique backstories, how you didn't think of that as unique I don't know.
You mean your Malavai Quinn didn't betray your Sith Warrior like mine did, despite 8k affection when I reached that point? You mean your Qyzen Fess didn't get his scorekeeper points reset at the start of the Consular story?

Every single player of the same class has same companions. Same dialogues triggering at the same affection levels. You may want to look up "unique".

Quote: Originally Posted by bionamaster View Post
Your choices do actually matter, they just don't change battles or anything. They add more to your character's personal story.
Which is as unpersonal as it gets, since everybody of the same class experience the same things, in the same order. Your character's story isn't personal; each class has a unique story. You get affiliated to it as you play the class, just like everyone else who opts for the same choice. And you all kill the same bad guy a thousand times over at the end of the line.

Quote: Originally Posted by bionamaster View Post
Combat actually is heroic. You can charge into combat, attack foes with advanced attack strategies and powerful weapons. You can win battles, skirmishes, and duels alike, filled with incredible animations and intriguing abilities.
Wow. Advanced attack strategies? I mean, how do you even define that as unique to this game, which in itself is still woefully simplistic compared to many other MMO's, WoW included, in terms of depth and theorycrafting? Powerful weapons; you referring to those empty shells that you can re-mod all the way up to level 61 mods? Yeah sure, that "Campaign War Leader's Lightsaber" or "Custom-Built Something" really is powerful, damn. So iconic and powerful, I totally dig that over, say, Sulfuras. And the abilities! So intriguing. Oh by the way, look at the two pictures in this article: http://technorati.com/entertainment/...s-the1/page-2/ - Really, Iove how those abilities are so new and innovative.

Quote: Originally Posted by bionamaster View Post
I won't presume to try and change your mind, but this is where I stand. The Devs said the game would be everything it is now, and that, my friend, is my opinion.
Except it isn't. The devs spouted an endless amount of postulates that this game haven't lived up to. But that list is far, far too long to rattle off here. At least for me to waste any additional breath on.

gunnerjoe's Avatar


gunnerjoe
07.11.2012 , 01:13 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Kubernetic View Post
Completely disagree with almost every point made by the OP.

I understand the linearity. I understand why combat is the way it is, so we don't have Jedi one-slice-killing people left and right, and so other classes have a chance. I understand some of the time sinks and credit sinks. I like my companions in all of the stories so far, etc.

Unfortunately, it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

I fully support the idea of making the post-50 planets non-linear, and providing a lot more room for exploration and diverging from the "beaten path", but I totally understand the 1-50 game. I think they did a superb job.
The issue with light saber combat is that I am sticking my lighgtsaber right through the persons body and that person has a hole right in his stomach yet he is still firing his gun like nothing happened. There is a simple fix to this, they should make it look like a shield is protecting their body once they get hit. When I mean shield, I don't mean a physical shield but a shield that only shows when the person gets hit and when the person runs out of health, obviously the shield goes down and the light saber cuts through the target...

Fardarter's Avatar


Fardarter
07.11.2012 , 01:45 PM | #94
My only comment is it look you till July to realize this? People were screaming about many of the issues you bring up in this thread during beta last year. By having "story" at least the way it was implemented you put the game on rails. I remember making a post about everquest 6 months ago saying how you could make a dozen toons and have a dozen entirely different experiences. "Story" is the limiting factor, it is themepark. The problem is that sandboxes dont sell millions of copies. The SWTOR universe would be perfect for a sandbox game, its sad.

If you took SWG sandbox planets and crafting and combined it with SWTOR combat you would have a very good game. If SWTOR devs are smart, moving forward they will open up the game some.

Best thing for SWTOR right now is that GW2 is entirely free to play and shouldn't hit subs too hard. That is unless people decide to just drop their subs.

flyersfan's Avatar


flyersfan
07.11.2012 , 02:36 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
SWTOR has introduced many unique aspects to the MMO world like, story, the legacy system, companions, and more. Unfortunately, the game has its many flaws that drag the game down to an extreme disappointment.
I wouldn't say that I'm extremely disappointed by the game. On the purest level, I enjoy playing. The combat is fun, I enjoy my character, and I like improving her: getting new armour, tweaking skills, and so on. I like the Warzones and Flashpoints a great deal. To me, the community takes away from them. I hate queuing up for Flashpoints and then having to do the "quick runs" where everyone speeders around all the enemies, skips bosses, and avoids the bonus stuff. However, I'm also just not really an MMO player and have come to terms with that.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
1. The story and planets are extremely linear
This is MMO influence. BioWare has to make things relatively consistent to make sure the constantly living world isn't complete nonsense. You follow the track until you get to the end and everything's the same because there's someone right behind you doing the same thing. You can't really have an option to blow up an Imperial base because there's another leader of Havoc Squad coming to do the same thing and that would just be silly.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
2. Even though the devs did say most choices you make matter, the fact is they dont.
Some of the choices do matter. Finish the Trooper story and you'll see. Some of those choices are pretty intense, emotional, and have some effect on the end of the Trooper story.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
3. Pointless quests and travel time kill the story
More MMO influence. MMOs are almost purely built on time sinks, so BioWare added time sinks. MMOs operate on a subscription pay method, so MMO developers want you to take a long time to do anything. Part of the development process is to find the "sweet spot" between it taking the player a long time to do things and the point where the player is grinding too much. This doesn't exist in Mass Effect because it's a single purchase.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
4. Lack of companion use
I agree.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
5. Combat is not heroic one bit
I find the combat to be quite heroic. I can jump towards a rancor, throw a Sticky Grenade at him, and then Gut him. Pretty awesome.

Quote: Originally Posted by gunnerjoe View Post
6. Finally, the game uses a lot of stallers
MMO
.

Daikeru's Avatar


Daikeru
07.11.2012 , 04:50 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
How can there be 1,000s on the dark council? 1,000s of Emp's wrath? It does NOT make sinse! Are the characters and players meant to be soooo dumb they don't see or know anything else but them and their companions in the whole universe? And before the "But your not meant to know everything about everyone else" kicks in, the answer to that is: I have a sorc and a Assassin AND a warrior and a Mar, so they don't know that each other is the same as them? Lol. The DC chambers must be the size of Cowboys stadium!
Oh right so we're supposed to let just 1 person become part of the Dark Council? Or well ... 8 of you? Have it so only 1 person becomes the emperor's wrath? Allow Jedi and Sith to become the overpowered classes they should be and you destroy PvP. Make it so characters actually DIE and can't be revived and no one gets past level 10. You want Bioware to make a world where every choice you can think of is possible and that's not something that can be done even with years of development. Now add to the fact that there are many worlds, thousands of species. You're asking for an entirely new reality with AI that rivals that of human ingenuity (don't think I'm using that word right .., but that's besides the point). You're asking for the currently impossible, maybe in the future such a feat could be accomplished.

Darth_Urtani's Avatar


Darth_Urtani
07.11.2012 , 05:05 PM | #97
SWTOR is a pretty big failure as an MMO, they should have just done a single player RPG.
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gunnerjoe's Avatar


gunnerjoe
07.12.2012 , 09:57 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post
I wouldn't say that I'm extremely disappointed by the game. On the purest level, I enjoy playing. The combat is fun, I enjoy my character, and I like improving her: getting new armour, tweaking skills, and so on. I like the Warzones and Flashpoints a great deal. To me, the community takes away from them. I hate queuing up for Flashpoints and then having to do the "quick runs" where everyone speeders around all the enemies, skips bosses, and avoids the bonus stuff. However, I'm also just not really an MMO player and have come to terms with that.



This is MMO influence. BioWare has to make things relatively consistent to make sure the constantly living world isn't complete nonsense. You follow the track until you get to the end and everything's the same because there's someone right behind you doing the same thing. You can't really have an option to blow up an Imperial base because there's another leader of Havoc Squad coming to do the same thing and that would just be silly.



Some of the choices do matter. Finish the Trooper story and you'll see. Some of those choices are pretty intense, emotional, and have some effect on the end of the Trooper story.



More MMO influence. MMOs are almost purely built on time sinks, so BioWare added time sinks. MMOs operate on a subscription pay method, so MMO developers want you to take a long time to do anything. Part of the development process is to find the "sweet spot" between it taking the player a long time to do things and the point where the player is grinding too much. This doesn't exist in Mass Effect because it's a single purchase.



I agree.



I find the combat to be quite heroic. I can jump towards a rancor, throw a Sticky Grenade at him, and then Gut him. Pretty awesome.



MMO
Your response to number 3 is that most mmo's do this and it is normal in mmo's. If this game was supposed to be a normal MMO I would completely agree to this but they said this mmo would be completely unique and that they would stick away from the standard boring stuff that are in mmo's

JetAten's Avatar


JetAten
07.12.2012 , 10:11 AM | #99
The OP shouldn't be playing MMOs at all. You could copy and paste that post into the forums of virtually any MMO out there.

gunnerjoe's Avatar


gunnerjoe
07.12.2012 , 10:14 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by JetAten View Post
The OP shouldn't be playing MMOs at all. You could copy and paste that post into the forums of virtually any MMO out there.
Once again, the devs said this game would be a unique mmo with all the fails of other mmo's out of the picture yet the game is still exactly the same as every other one. If this was going to be a standard MMO, I would have no problems with the issues I said but this game was proclaimed to be a unique, innovative MMO and it was not