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STAR WARS and bad writers...


Gorra-Syn's Avatar


Gorra-Syn
07.07.2012 , 05:56 PM | #1
This seems to be a very big problem with Star Wars today. How many more "over the top" Sith or Jedi must we see before someone wakes up? If I published a Star Wars book, and my Sith character could desintegrate a person with only a look.. or destroy an entire galaxy with a thought, would he be one of the most powerful Sith ever?..yes but he would also be very lame. It seems that writers today have no idea what Star Wars is or needs to be, and of course GL only wants the money and cares nothing of the EU. I remember as a little boy watching Luke block blaster fire from the training droid and all I could say was "woooww".. then to do it with his eyes covered?? I was blown away. These days, Jedi/Sith are more along the lines of Superman.. it's over kill. If all I knew of Star Wars was the movies, I would think the Jedi are just normal people, but when they "quiet their mind" they can do amazing things. Most writers have just taken this idea and thrown it away. If I was pure evil,and could fight like Rambo, would I be more of danger to mankind than people like Hitler, Pol Pot, or Stalin?? Well of course not, it takes more to be a great villain.

All too often we get characters that are way over the top, when does it stop? When is it too much? The writers (all EU,not just books) need to think more before they deliver a product, and stop trying to out do the last guy. Give us something with some meat on it,and not just some guy that can kill everything..end of story. Look at comic books.. can Superman beat Batman? hell yeah he can, and yet Batman is every bit as popular, why is this? It's because he has a rich story and a great cast a villains and the reader can relate with him more. Give us some great Sith and Jedi, but for cry'n out loud calm down with the lame "uberness". Also it's is a very big deal when a Jedi turns to the dark side.. it's a "fall from grace" if you will. It's an even bigger deal to see one that can come back,thats why Vader's redemption was such a big deal. Maybe thats why they have statues of them in the Jedi library... the lost 20. Ill bet they have more statues down in the basement... the redeemed 60?? Come on people, a fall to the dark side is like a black hole, not a trip to the store for eggs and milk!! I don't know about you,but I would take a weak Sith with a great and calmer story over an over the top Sith any day. Maybe it's just me... what do you think? Please share.

Cheers
PROUD MEMBER OF THE "since 77" CLUB

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
07.07.2012 , 06:17 PM | #2
Relate to Batman?....Ya right....Batman has been played and put on such a platform that he could beat anyone with preperation. That is no way relate able, because he never fails, everything always works 100% of the time for him.

Now last I checked The Force has no limit, therefore force users given enough training with it are able to accomplish pretty much anything. However there have only been a handful of characters that have reached that level, or even come close to reaching that level. Jedi/Sith are still mortal, they have made mistakes and have lost/died and never have come back whereas with comic book characters they almost never die and when they do, they come back through some absurd reason or the writers never bother to explain and they are back in the next issue.

In short, Jedi/Sith are not like Superman at all. They are vulnerable to even the most normal attacks the only things that make them different from the normal people in the Star Wars Universe is that they can tap into a power that puts them above those people.

Now are there bad SW writers? Sure every franchise has their share of bad writers, but to say Jedi/Sith are on Superman level is wrong.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Gorra-Syn's Avatar


Gorra-Syn
07.07.2012 , 06:26 PM | #3
I think you mist my point,but thats my fault. I was only talking about Superman/Batman because they are not on the same level power wise.. I only used them to explain my point.. nothing more. I also forgot to add the part of how I hate all the "This guy vs that guy" polls that always pop up. When I said they are more like Superman, I was talking about the uberness.. not that they have the same powers. Sorry if I wasnt clear on that.
PROUD MEMBER OF THE "since 77" CLUB

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
07.07.2012 , 06:33 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorra-Syn View Post
I think you mist my point,but thats my fault. I was only talking about Superman/Batman because they are not on the same level power wise.. I only used them to explain my point.. nothing more. I also forgot to add the part of how I hate all the "This guy vs that guy" polls that always pop up. When I said they are more like Superman, I was talking about the uberness.. not that they have the same powers. Sorry if I wasnt clear on that.
No I got that part about the uberness, but they really are not. Jedi masters were gunned down by clones due to surprise, they have died from explosions, against sith etc. But here, give me an example by what you mean by uberness so everyone can get a better idea.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
07.07.2012 , 06:46 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorra-Syn View Post
This seems to be a very big problem with Star Wars today. How many more "over the top" Sith or Jedi must we see before someone wakes up? If I published a Star Wars book, and my Sith character could desintegrate a person with only a look.. or destroy an entire galaxy with a thought, would he be one of the most powerful Sith ever?..yes but he would also be very lame. It seems that writers today have no idea what Star Wars is or needs to be, and of course GL only wants the money and cares nothing of the EU. I remember as a little boy watching Luke block blaster fire from the training droid and all I could say was "woooww".. then to do it with his eyes covered?? I was blown away. These days, Jedi/Sith are more along the lines of Superman.. it's over kill. If all I knew of Star Wars was the movies, I would think the Jedi are just normal people, but when they "quiet their mind" they can do amazing things. Most writers have just taken this idea and thrown it away. If I was pure evil,and could fight like Rambo, would I be more of danger to mankind than people like Hitler, Pol Pot, or Stalin?? Well of course not, it takes more to be a great villain.
The Jedi have never been depicted like Superman. The only reason even such a thing happens is because of power creep on behalf of everyone else. The Jedi are the tops. They are not people who can do "amazing things" they are the best of the best of the best. The Jedi Order was a group of Warrior Monks who were unmatched in bravery, wisdom, and combat capability. They were the people who could bring a sword to a gunfight and win.

It is a combination of combat prowess and wisdom that makes the Jedi what they are and that is fine...

Until you start ramping up the bad guys. When you do that the Jedi have to get ramped up to maintain the status quo.

Stop trying to mess up the status quo and you stop the power creep.

Blame Karen's mega-mandos for that.

Quote:
All too often we get characters that are way over the top, when does it stop? When is it too much? The writers (all EU,not just books) need to think more before they deliver a product, and stop trying to out do the last guy. Give us something with some meat on it,and not just some guy that can kill everything..end of story. Look at comic books.. can Superman beat Batman? hell yeah he can, and yet Batman is every bit as popular, why is this? It's because he has a rich story and a great cast a villains and the reader can relate with him more.
...

Batman is not a character that others can relate to in comic books. Sure he has no "super powers" ... You know... If you don't count the fact that he's a billionaire genius forensic scientist engineer Olympic level athlete ninja with severe psychological issues... But I mean... Isn't everyone?

Give me Superman any day. A person with amazing skills who has to restrain himself all the time who hides who he is all the time and though he appears like everyone else doesn't feel like he belongs.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
07.07.2012 , 06:49 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post

Batman is not a character that others can relate to in comic books. Sure he has no "super powers" ... You know... If you don't count the fact that he's a billionaire genius forensic scientist engineer Olympic level athlete ninja with severe psychological issues... But I mean... Isn't everyone?-.
This made me laugh lol, nice Walsh. In fact, I always thought Batman's preparation for anything to be a super power.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Gorra-Syn's Avatar


Gorra-Syn
07.07.2012 , 06:59 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
No I got that part about the uberness, but they really are not. Jedi masters were gunned down by clones due to surprise, they have died from explosions, against sith etc. But here, give me an example by what you mean by uberness so everyone can get a better idea.
If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.
PROUD MEMBER OF THE "since 77" CLUB

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
07.07.2012 , 07:04 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorra-Syn View Post
If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.
Eh living for thousands of years isn't really anything spectacular, pulling a moon out of orbit is rather child's play compared to what comic book heroes can do. As for Galen(Starkiller) his over the top stuff was due to gameplay mechanics due to make the game more fun, the novel which is actual canon makes his force powers much more tame.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
07.07.2012 , 07:06 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorra-Syn View Post
If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.
The over the top stuff doesn't bother me and I became a Star Wars fan before we had any EU as well. That is because the over the top stuff (with the exception of Starkiller) isn't that bad or common.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Gorra-Syn's Avatar


Gorra-Syn
07.07.2012 , 07:23 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
The over the top stuff doesn't bother me and I became a Star Wars fan before we had any EU as well. That is because the over the top stuff (with the exception of Starkiller) isn't that bad or common.
Thanks for the comments proffessor, I think Ill pass on any responce to that guy wolf above you because after his comments, its obvious he just doesn't get it, and only wants to argue. But back to my point....

Starkiller, yes I would agree except people seem to take what he does in game as cannon way too often. I remember before the game came out, the devs talked about what he does and said yes its over the top, but that is what they are going for.. over the top and not cannon. Of course the fan boyz came out of the wood work and now they always go back to that when Starkiller is talked about in a poll. I think it just makes sence to use the movies as a model for obvious reasons. Example.. Yoda pulls an X-Wing out of a swamp and it looks like it took so much , but its no big deal to move a moon? I just shook my head when that happend. Now I dont fell all Jedi or Sith are OP.. but I do feel the ones that are, come way too often. Again I think this is just a bad writer trying to out do another writer.

Quick add.. The X-Wing scene took a lot of concentration, and the scene when Yoda blocks Dookus lightning seemed to really take something out of him. These are things that take alot... but some EU stuff goes way beyond what you see in a movie. Make new powers and all.. that fine.. my problem again is with the over the top aspect of these powers.
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