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Is the Sith philosophy right


Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
07.06.2012 , 08:35 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Forgon View Post
GL (aka word of God) has spoken that the Jedi philosophy and code in the movies is the closest to the reality of the Force and most accurate. Its no debate, no matter how much people argue.
Yes, but in-universe people don't know what GL said. So even if I know that the Jedi are right, I can very well understand why others disagree with them.

Tharan Cedrax (Jedi consular companion) is an A-Force-ist or at least very skeptical. I know that he is wrong, but I understand that from his point of view the Force isn't as obvious as it is for us. So I could argue from his perspective/explain why he doesn't believe in the Force.


Quote: Originally Posted by grandmthethird View Post
the sith code my work for a barbaric on-civilized culture. but considering the sith are sposed to be quite an intelligent enlightened race, it does seem strange they use such an archaic system to live by. but anyway it works well with the whole good v evil thing but it really doesn't fit into modern life.

*edit* didn't really mean to quote there, i pressed quote instead of reply and didn't really notice nvm, your was such a great post it deserves another showing
You honor me. *bow*

As I said, the Sith Code probably makes the most sense when read from the perspective of the Dark Jedi who founded the Sith:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. - the Jedi tell us there is peace, but we feel passion.
Through passion, I gain strength. - Let us use our passions, we can become much stronger.
Through strength, I gain power. - When we are strong enough, we can challange the Jedi.
Through power, I gain victory. - Finally we will crush the Jedi.
Through victory, my chains are broken. - After the Jedi are destroyed, we will be free.
The Force shall set me free. - The Dark Side leads to freedom.

Note that their passion was dark science. The wanted to use the dark side to twist life to their will and creaty monsters that serve them.

passion = dark science
strength = strong monsters we create
power = these monsters serve us so we are powerful

It didn't work out that well, since they lost and were exiled. But they kept that code and new sith interpreted it at their whim.


Again, this is not that different in our world. To really understand religious and philosophical literature (let's say the Bible or Plato), you should also look at it's historical context. It makes things a lot easier to understand.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Sagimore's Avatar


Sagimore
07.06.2012 , 02:12 PM | #12
The Jedi code is close to Buddhism except for the slicing off of body arts with glowing swords. They dont deny emotions, they just lets them flow through them. Emotions are reactions to fear. I find this is true most angry is caused by fear of some sort.

The sith code- I'm pretty sure he looked to the Nazis for this. They turned around a lot sayings and words. They used the word fanatical to describe a positive character trait. They created similar slogans, they murdered the weak sick and the insane.

Tyrillar's Avatar


Tyrillar
03.03.2013 , 10:52 PM | #13
Depends on how you look at it, for me it seems a lot like the Chinese Open hand/Closed Fist martial Arts philosophy. One side (Open Hand) fights to protect the weak and better ones self through meditation/inner peace. While the other side (Closed Fist) take power by any means required, even if it means stepping on a few weaker peoples necks.

The Jedi philosophy and code are a lot like a certain book we all know about, looks a bit like this [+]. It would never work, sounds like the coding of a droid more than a code for organics.

The Sith code is taken out of context too IMO, just because it is written in a harsh tone.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion:- There is never a "peace", right now there is a war going on somewhere. The will to fight to keep loved ones safe is what drives them to fight. (Even if that loved one is themselves)
Through passion, I gain strength.:- How many times have you heard fighters say they used their pain and anger to fuel their punches? The Sith don't hide from feeling, they use them. (There are extremes of course)
Through strength, I gain power.:- Ahhh Power, how can one hold power if one has no strength? That peace up there is only there because of the power.
Through power, I gain victory:- Once the power and strength has been proven, most will fall into line. Many battles in the Middle Ages were settled just by showing the Strength, power and passion of your army...It is indeed a powerful thing.
Through victory, my chains are broken:- Good old Victory, who doesn't love winning? Someone at work pushing you around...Defeat them...Make them suffer...Now you are free from the fear they cause you... You are the master now...Feels good huh....
The Force shall free me:- The Force gives you the strength to free yourself...That makes it a tool, and tools are made to be used. Use the Force as you see fit and remake the world in your image MWHAHAHAHAHA!

This has been a public broadcast from your local Sith Lord, Darth Tyrillar.

Doctoglethorpe's Avatar


Doctoglethorpe
03.03.2013 , 11:02 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Malrus View Post
I don't think there really is a right or wrong side.
Winner winner chicken dinner.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.04.2013 , 01:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Sagimore View Post
The Jedi code is close to Buddhism except for the slicing off of body arts with glowing swords. They dont deny emotions, they just lets them flow through them. Emotions are reactions to fear. I find this is true most angry is caused by fear of some sort.

The sith code- I'm pretty sure he looked to the Nazis for this. They turned around a lot sayings and words. They used the word fanatical to describe a positive character trait. They created similar slogans, they murdered the weak sick and the insane.
The Jedi certainly seem to think that emotions are reactions to fear, but they're wrong. Fear is a singular emotion, and it is quite useful. Without it, you wouldn't know not to touch a hot stove. It's the fear of consequences that makes you consider your decisions carefully.

Aside from fear, there are numerous other emotions. Amusement, anger, frustration, sorrow, happiness, love. These are emotions which run the gamut of human experience, but the Jedi make no distinction between "emotion" and "bad thing that we say leads to the Dark Side".

Anger doesn't have to be caused by fear, either. There is also righteous anger, the natural reaction to seeing people wronged or abused. When anger gets out of control, it becomes rage, which is commonly referred to as "seeing red". This is when people do reckless things, and get out of hand. However, most people can keep a good handle on their anger, and it can fuel determination to fight evil.

The Jedi would be far more effective and powerful if they used their emotions properly, instead of trying to get rid of them by seeking a "Buddhist" state of nothingness, that void of emotion which the Jedi seem to encourage (there is emotion - there is peace).
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Helig's Avatar


Helig
03.04.2013 , 01:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Yes, but in-universe people don't know what GL said. So even if I know that the Jedi are right, I can very well understand why others disagree with them.

Tharan Cedrax (Jedi consular companion) is an A-Force-ist or at least very skeptical. I know that he is wrong, but I understand that from his point of view the Force isn't as obvious as it is for us. So I could argue from his perspective/explain why he doesn't believe in the Force.
Indeed. Both philosophies prove fruitful, in-universe, in their own way. Otherwise Sith would have gone extinct a long time, and the Jedi would fade out of the greater picture, being reduced to secluded communities and wandering monks.

I kind of admit that, if I were an in-universe Force-sensitive, the Sith philosophy would hold much interest to me. In my experience, strong, negative emotion can greatly help one advance. Both within society, and in self-improvement.
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post

The Jedi would be far more effective and powerful if they used their emotions properly, instead of trying to get rid of them by seeking a "Buddhist" state of nothingness, that void of emotion which the Jedi seem to encourage (there is emotion - there is peace).
But that would advance single-minded mindsets and personality deformation. OK for soldiers/law enforcement. Not OK for people who are in position to start and stop wars with a single word.

Those who can influence the greater picture most must see the greater picture at its fullest. Otherwise, their influence does more harm than good.

However, I do prefer the Old code to the new. "Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge." You accept and acknowledge something, yet you do not let it affect your judgement. You accept a flaw, yet seek improvement. New code reeks of absolutes. Dumbed down version of the Old code.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.04.2013 , 06:02 AM | #17
You know, both codes are equally as ludicrous, one tells us not to face our emotions, thus leaving someone open to getting hit like a freight train when someone receives high intensity emotions, the other code tells us to focus on all emotions and rely on it entirely when dealing with any given situation.

Hardly good advice.
"The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is perfect."
Imperial Order

Helig's Avatar


Helig
03.04.2013 , 06:18 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
You know, both codes are equally as ludicrous, one tells us not to face our emotions, thus leaving someone open to getting hit like a freight train when someone receives high intensity emotions, the other code tells us to focus on all emotions and rely on it entirely when dealing with any given situation.

Hardly good advice.
Actually no, it's not the ludicrous part of the Jedi code. The Jedi code does teach to face passions. It teaches not to be affected by them. At least the old code was about that. It's the new code that's atrocious. It supposedly supports the same notions, but it deals in absolutes more than SIth do and requires more explanation/interpretation than law. Why they needed to change that, I can't fathom. The fact that people like Walsh zealously swear by it speaks volumes.

As far as Sith go, it's not the Code itself, but rather the Sith religion that's ludicrous. If the Sith Code is interpreted in a more introverted fashion - to push one to overcome one's weakness, to never get caught in the feeling of peace and satisfaction, to develop strength that breaks inner barriers, etc, etc. Too bad a lot of Sith see it as a directive for oppression and conquest, seeing the "victory" in the code as a physical one over an enemy without, and not a spiritual one over a weakness within. Granted, many Sith of the Empire are more practical than zealous and don't really follow the dominant extremist interpretation of it, and that's why, in my opinion, the Empire is still standing.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.04.2013 , 06:28 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Actually no, it's not the ludicrous part of the Jedi code. The Jedi code does teach to face passions. It teaches not to be affected by them. At least the old code was about that. It's the new code that's atrocious. It supposedly supports the same notions, but it deals in absolutes more than SIth do and requires more explanation/interpretation than law. Why they needed to change that, I can't fathom. The fact that people like Walsh zealously swear by it speaks volumes.

As far as Sith go, it's not the Code itself, but rather the Sith religion that's ludicrous. Granted, many Sith of the Empire are more practical than zealous and don't really follow the dominant extremist interpretation of it, and that's why, in my opinion, the Empire is still standing.
I was talking about the codes themselves, nothing more, both are frankly idiotic.

The code of the Sith and Odan-Urr's Jedi code, both are bad, really bad.

Also, Walsh hasn't been on these boards for months on end, as far as I know.
EDIT: Just checked, it's been nearly a year since his last post.
"The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is perfect."
Imperial Order

Helig's Avatar


Helig
03.04.2013 , 06:31 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I was talking about the codes themselves, nothing more, both are frankly idiotic.

The code of the Sith and Odan-Urr's Jedi code, both are bad, really bad.

Also, Walsh hasn't been on these boards for months on end, as far as I know.
I suppose I can agree with that. But, in terms of the Sith Code, it's more a matter of interpretation, I believe.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie