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The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

Baphomet_x's Avatar


Baphomet_x
07.05.2012 , 06:02 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by Varaben View Post
The greatest irony here is that the more mainstream MMOs get, the more dumbed down they will get. Though, I believe we have already reached a saturation point in regards to "dumbing" down this genre.

Think about this: 10 years ago, who was playing MMOs? White males between the ages of 12 and 30. And not many of them either, mostly the loners and computer geeks. Now, everyone plays MMOs, whether it's Farmville or SWTOR or WoW or whatever.

The only way for game companies to reach everyone is to make everything easy and accessible. It's not like Call of Duty where you know your audience. I would wager there aren't as many housewives or grandpa's playing CoD as there are playing SWTOR. It has a more mass market appeal now which is great! But concurrently it also means to keep everyone happy, game companies have to create easy content that takes time rather than skill.

edit: My point is, the "stagnation" as you call it is 100% intentional by the game developers. You can't make a super innovative game that breaks the mold because noone will play it. A small subset of players will love it sure, but it won't have massmarket appeal. EQ never had mass market appeal nor did UO. Both of which are still around in some form and have a dedicated fanbase. They never achieved massmarket success like WoW. That's why wow is the "grandfather." It make MMOs more M than ever before.

i agree with yer last part..but only in terms of size....lucky yer not on the other side of the fence,korean or chinese grinders...the game i came to star wars from....was one game,of a subset of games...which a certain chinese company owns

this company in question does have many different game worlds under its control yes,but there cumulative size in composing the company,literally dwarfs every single holding blizzard actually has...

there is another problem,this isnt a nice company either,all there games are free to play...this company is like a dead hulk,it scavenges failed game titles....

also,as a subversive hint as to it`s identity...it recently absorbed cryptic studios

me,id be fine with things the way they are on here....cause despite me hating warcraft...it seems to be a major bullwark against outside forces...perhaps that is sheilding swtor no?


also,the game i came from before that chinese one i mentioned,was a korean grinder,that was launched in 2001,3 years before warcraft,and it was one of the first,if not the first (my memory is hazy so i might be wrong on the "the first" part"),to have fully 3d graphics in an mmo

ComeAndSee's Avatar


ComeAndSee
07.05.2012 , 06:53 AM | #202
My first MMO was Ragnarok Online and that was in the early 2000's. After that it was Priston Tale, Lineage 2, and then WoW.

All the MMOs I played before WoW were click to move games and you had to use your F1-F2 keys. They were all one faction games and Lineage 2 was the most dedicated to PvP. The amount of world PvP on it was amazing and factions were created by usually a collection of different guilds controlling different castles. I played mostly on private servers after the initial games beta, but some of them I had really good experiences. Hell, one of them got raided by the FBI : http://www.gamespot.com/news/fbi-bus...ackers-6162100

When I played WoW, it was like playing a brand new innovative game for me and this was in 2005 right in the early Vanilla period of WoW. The graphics were good, having to quest instead of grind was fun, and the first time you leveled was the most memorable experience. Running my first instance was like "wow, this is cool!" There was no warzones so the world PvP was usually people raiding towns. I mean, the first time I walked into Darkshore there was a 20 or so man raid their killing the npcs and I thought it looked fun.

Early Vanilla WoW was much different than WoW is today. I mean 40 man dungeons was just insane. If you rolled a class you HAD to be a certain spec, end of story. Druids, Priests, Shamans, and Paladins were either a healer or ****. There was no feral/balance druids, shadow priests, or ret paladins in raids, etc.

Burning Crusade was a very large jump for WoW. It changed the game more than the other expansion packs.
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xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
07.05.2012 , 07:04 AM | #203
Have you noticed that the secret world(TSW) breaks pretty much all of these trends?

1) It still has sharding; to a degree. There are only 4 or 5 servers. The difference is that they sub-divided their servers into instances, much like SWTOR has done, but to a much larger degree. One area I was in had 8 or 9 different instances, each with hundreds of players, all on the same shard... And that's just one area. A shard could probably hold a hundred thousand or more.

2) Trinity. WoW kind of broke from this with Shadow priests in TBC, because you ended up with a class that wasn't amazing DPS but did decent heals. To a degree that still exists, but in TSW now you get characters that can be any mix of the three all at once, and still be viable. You'll never be able to move away from the idea of tank, healer, damage dealer; but you can blurr the lines a lot.

3) Factionalisation is a huge problem when it comes to dividing people. WoW is still the ultimate factionalisation game, you can't even read /say chat from the other faction. TSW is about as least factionalised as you can get while still being seperate. For instance, your general chats include all the factions, and you can even group with other factions for some quests. Yeah in PVP you're against each other, but in everything else you're really not.

4) Grinding and leveling: The only way to move away from this is an elder scrolls like system; or a system like TSW where there is no leveling, or cap... At milemarks for exp you get points to spend; semi-infinitely. You can keep doing quests until you've got every ability in the game, because there are no classes. Or you can get a few quick ability points then jump right into end game and pvp.
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croll's Avatar


croll
07.05.2012 , 07:16 AM | #204
You might be right about most of the things you mentioned but there is one big issue; these things you mentioned are not possible to implement to swtor so eventhough i agree to most of your points they are not viable to this game now are they?
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jgelling's Avatar


jgelling
07.05.2012 , 07:47 AM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post
Have you noticed that the secret world(TSW) breaks pretty much all of these trends?

1) It still has sharding; to a degree. There are only 4 or 5 servers. The difference is that they sub-divided their servers into instances, much like SWTOR has done, but to a much larger degree. One area I was in had 8 or 9 different instances, each with hundreds of players, all on the same shard... And that's just one area. A shard could probably hold a hundred thousand or more.

2) Trinity. WoW kind of broke from this with Shadow priests in TBC, because you ended up with a class that wasn't amazing DPS but did decent heals. To a degree that still exists, but in TSW now you get characters that can be any mix of the three all at once, and still be viable. You'll never be able to move away from the idea of tank, healer, damage dealer; but you can blurr the lines a lot.

3) Factionalisation is a huge problem when it comes to dividing people. WoW is still the ultimate factionalisation game, you can't even read /say chat from the other faction. TSW is about as least factionalised as you can get while still being seperate. For instance, your general chats include all the factions, and you can even group with other factions for some quests. Yeah in PVP you're against each other, but in everything else you're really not.

4) Grinding and leveling: The only way to move away from this is an elder scrolls like system; or a system like TSW where there is no leveling, or cap... At milemarks for exp you get points to spend; semi-infinitely. You can keep doing quests until you've got every ability in the game, because there are no classes. Or you can get a few quick ability points then jump right into end game and pvp.
That's great - now if only they took the time to put those things into a mainstream MMO instead of a niche, Lovecraftian horror single-player RPG (calling itself an MMO to add a little to the purchase price), the world would take some small notice.

gabusan's Avatar


gabusan
07.05.2012 , 07:53 AM | #206
You are all wrong. The only reason WOW stands above the others is that they have chat bubbles, animated speak and emotes with sound. No one else has that. If no one can even get that right, how can they expect to even compare to WOW?

Gangrel's Avatar


Gangrel
07.05.2012 , 08:26 AM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by twinionx View Post
I am asking for the equivalent of space flight when we are currently in WW2 era flight technology. Something that is hard but doable in time. I am not asking for time traveling.

Single shard tech exist already for games like EVE online. You can also do a workaround with a cross-server EVERYTHING. So the intermediary tech is already there. The only thing lacking is the WILLPOWER to do this.
Eve is a "single shard" in that there is only one server, and its performance in any one given system is limited to the hardware that the system is running on. Thankfully now, they have resolved the "too many in one room" problem by making the game itself run slower to make sure that everything that happens, does happen, and "on time" (I am, of course, referring to Time dilation).

However, that is a "gameplay" mechanic to resolve a singular problem... to many people in a single solar system can make the processor that it runs on scream, cry and throw random things out of the server park. Of course, there was (and still is) a larger problem out there, that would help resolve the problem even more... making the Server tech run *fluidly* over multiple threads and CPU's. Shame that the Eve server tech *doesnt* do this... which is why *ideally* you still have to notify them of any large fleet battles out there (just so that they can move to you over to a higher spec server blade).

I will state that i am not a coder, so I am not so sure as to how easy it would be for them to code any of the proposed changes.

One thing that you do also have to think about is "do we limit the number of people in the system so that we do not overwhelm THEIR CPU/GPUS if they decide to run everything at high details" (honestly, with some large fleet battles, i would still recommend that you drop details in Eve), just to make sure you have decent enough FPS.. or do you try to rewrite part of the engine so that it drops graphical quality so that it always hits a certain FPS (which for a fast moving game, i would recommend)
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4) I have seen more intellegence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

ZenMorph's Avatar


ZenMorph
07.05.2012 , 08:49 AM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by twinionx View Post
2. This is also another chicken-and-egg issue. The trinity is a "proven" way because the dungeons are designed for trinity fights. Re-design the dungeon for non-trinity and suddenly, it is not so proven anymore. Think about it. Was Esseles/Black Talon more fun or was hammer station more fun? (personally, I felt Esseles/BT was more fun due to the story element)
Agreed. I think BT/Esseles are, in fact, the most entertaining group instances I've played in any MMORPG.
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Jonoku's Avatar


Jonoku
07.05.2012 , 08:49 AM | #209
There are WoW clones, but no SWG clones?

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.05.2012 , 08:54 AM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Kikkelipoika View Post
What about progress? There has to be progress. You don't , after all, keep paying monthly fees for theme parks; you pay once and go see the magic mountain. When you want to see the magic mountain again next week, you're required to pay again. That's why you need progress; to give players in game goals that keep them playing the game for more months to come. Your theme park model just wouldn't work financially with a game that is based on monthly fees.

Now, If you would want to make this theme park model work, it would have to be a browser based game, where you pay up every time you want to play and you'll have a certain amount of time, like 6 hours, to spend in the game world, with additional fees whenever you want to see certain "Magic mountains" or just need refreshments. I just don't think that would make for a very fun game.
I find it strange someone would say a game is not fun when you can do anything you want, group with anyone you want, anytime you want.

I guess many players have been abused by current MMO games so much that you feel you need to suffer the grind before you enjoy?