The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

A week to level a character? That kind of life must be nice...

Myself, and I know many many others like me, cannot do that. We only get to play, at most, a couple hours a night, and not usually every night. Hardcore gamers may want the process to be longer. People like me (those with kids, those who work, those with RL friends and hobbies outside of the game) do not.

If people aren't demanding that, then does it really need to be innovated? I would say no...

??? Why is this audience dumb? This sentence right here puts everything you have said into a certain light for me. In my experience, those who find their opinion in the minority often try to claim elitist intelligence, but really, they are no smarter than anyone else. Sometimes, they're even dumber than the average bear.

Really, in MMOs, what it usually comes down to isn't smarter vs dumber players. It's hardcore vs casual players. Casual players can get much more out of a simpler game than hardcore players, because they don't exhaust it as fast, and don't develop "sick skills" as quickly. And casual gamers don't really go for complex, difficult games because the learning curve is too steep for their allotted game time. Why would you want to spend your relaxation time stressed out and dying a lot?

The reason WoW did so well, and is still the boss, is because unlike EQ and EQ2, WoW appealed to the casual player, and it turns out, there are far more people with real lives that can't devote 20-40 hours a week to a video game than those that can.

Is this suggesting that MMOs are no longer successful since they went mainstream? If I had to guess, what's "best" for MMOs is staying mainstream, which means remaining appealing to the majority of gamers, which happens to be the casual gamers.

Wait, if you don't like anything about thos game(rvrn how sotry was done), what do you care?

Realize other players just like it this way, and don't go trying to change their game, go look for game more fitting yourself.

Totally agree.
Guild Wars 2.
All players in a team have a set of DPS, CC, and Heal (self and others) skills, so the idea is already put in practice. However, a deeper analisys of the professions and their gears makes clear that tank-dps-healer(supporter) model is underneath. But is a step in the right direction.

Of course we see the pattern, but some sort of factionalization is required. If you want PvP you've got to give a porpouse to most players. Yes many will do it for the fun only, but many others (like me) needs feel that join a PvP fight has a meaning and that it'll have an impact in the "world". Otherwise I'm not interested in PvP just for fun, or a rank, or a title, or a cool reward.
One of the games I PvPed most was Guild Wars, but I didn't joined PvP 'till they implemented the Legacy system for Guild Wars 2 and I had to aquire certain level in a PvP title to earn the Point for my character's legacy in Guild Wars 2. You can argue I PvPed for a reward, and is true, but is a meaningfull reward that will have an impact in my character in Guild Wars 2.
And another game I will surely PvP is Guild Wars 2. Why? Beacause they've gat a Server vs Server PvP arena called The Mist and is a meaningfull PvP since have control of the area gives global bonuses to the winning server. This is not a new feature though, I saw it already in Black Prophecy, though there the bonus goes to the winning faction.

I'm with you here too, but some sort of leveling is neccessary unless you makes everybody start maxed.
The only game I know that is not completely based on leveling is EVE Online. However, what you can or cannot do is determined by the skills earned through books and these books are hierarchicaly organized into levels, so, in the end, you have to progress trhough "grinding and leveling" too. But I admit that EVE Online skill books system is amazing and innovative (I haven't see it before neither after).

The industry is not completely stagnant as you can see by the examples I just pointed, but we are speaking of an Industry that looks for profit and quick results thus investors bets only for what has proven it works: WOW, and ran away from "experiments". That's why the industry advances slowly and looks stagnant, because only when a small company with guts enough to break the rules with its small budget MMO gets a success as big as WOW was/is, the industry will change to the new paradigm.

Its a movie about an athlete who only cares about the gold medal, and forgets about the fun in the "journey". In the movie he starts to learn it is more about the fun in the journey than about the destination. It included your quote as well :P

this reminds me of learning physics,specifically,star/solar system formation

0.pre formation phase 1: a massive star dies,sending out powerfull shockwaves of plasma and radioactive material,destroying planets,and creating a massive nebula rich in elements in it`s wake (im guessing the shutdown of swg is this phase)

1.pre-formation phase 2: hydrogen gas floating around in space is drawn to a singular point,usually do to a random occurence of gravitational attraction (think of this like the marketing phase before swtor came out,tons of eager people just waiting to jump on it)

2.star formation phase 1: the hydrogen gas keeps on collecting on a single point,to the point where nuclear fusion is triggered (launch day)

3.star formation phase 2: as the nuclear fusion grows,it grows by leaps and bounds,sending out successive shockwaves that blast much of the hydrogen gas around the star out into space,some of it to never return (population flux,massive subscript drop initially)

3.star formation phase 3: as the nuclear fusion finishes,we have a new,and extremely bright burning star....the remaining hydrogen gas has begun clumping into dust and the like...with the elements left behind by the previous star aiding heavily in this formation (star wars galaxys,than swtor,get the picture?)

4.star formation phase 4: the star gets slightly older,the dust particles begin ramming into each other,creating millions of tiny planetoids (the deployment of extra servers,whiched caused the population per server problem)

5.planetary formation phase 1:,the millions of tiny planetoids begin ramming into each other,this becomes an extremely violent phase where tons of planetoids are obliterated to create much larger ones

6.planetary formation phase 2: a series of large,and incredibly heavy planetoids are created,while there are yet still many thousands of planetoids floating around,thus begins the tinier planetoids,due to gravitation attraction,slamming into the much,much larger ones,deleting the many to create the big( the server transfer phase we just got from)

7.planetary formation phase 3:...as the collisions pick up pace,there are very few small planetoids left,yet there are still many thousands in all actually...you begin to start having the larger planetoids crashing into each other,the furosity of these impacts sometimes shattering burgeoning worlds,yet it always ends up making a larger planetoid(this is the phase we are entering into now,as logic would tell you,the free char transfers will lead to server mergers in the near future)

8.planetary formation phase 4: you now have a series of hulking,monsterous planetoids,starting to assume there natural orbits as dictated by the star`s gravity...every so often a large planetoid slams into one of these orbiting ones,causing it to blast off some of it`s material in a spectacular explosion,(as time goes on some of the less significant servers that still have population will most likely break under the strain...thus causing bioware to take the quick way out and offering a mass transfer from the smaller one to one of the bigger ones...then deleting the smaller server...all the while the larger one is in turmoil due to the impact of a new influx like this,btw this is the near future)

9: planetary formation phase 5: and now,you can rightfully start calling the larger planetoids,planets...most of the planetoids have been absorbed by the bigger ones in the super violence phase...there are a small handfull of planets,maybe like 10 or 20 or so...all of them still roiling in magma mind you....but as always there are still atleast afew rogue planetoids wandering around the outer reaches of the star`s power(the super violence phase is almost gone here,but stayed tuned,this is like slightly past the near future,there will be a certain aura of calm and stability for awhile before some larger yet more finalistic problems down the road)

10lanetary formation phase 6: the planets start cooling down,and a number of interesting things start happening here....the few remaining rogue planetoids at the outer reaches of the star`s gravity collide with each other,now being mostly non molten objects,and being under weak gravity influence,they just plain shatter into bits...gradually spreading out over the edges of the star`s gravity to form a sort of cloud of debri surrounding the orbits of the planets...yet this new cloud of debri has most of the water and organic starter chemicals locked up in it,due to the fact that with most of the planets these sort of chemicals have been locked up in the planets interiors

also at the same time,the planets on the outer reaches of the star`s gravity begin swinging within gravity range of some of the hydrogen gas and now other types of gas left over from star formation phase...so you end up with the start of some of the gas giants,hence non molten planets attracting cold gas,which then due to the gravitational increase attracts more and more gas....sometimes attracting debri from the surrounding cloud,sometimes gaining moons of questionable quality in the process,sometimes flinging these debri into the inner solar system (this is the cool part,where alot of problems are solved,and we end up with mostly stable,very large servers that start attracting some of the people that were lost during the launch phase,while at the same time we get the whispers of some of the original servers that still remain having problem,im guessing network problems,alot of little things at once,look for this sometime in the midpoint of 2013 im guessing,or maybe earlier,hard to tell at this point)

10:solar system phase 1: the clash of the titans sort of moment in history...due to the gravitational disturbance induced by the gas giant formation,and of other passing stars in the distance....lots of the debri from the surrounding cloud is hurled inward...and with the planets still being on shaky orbits,this begins mussing up there trajectorys...some of the planets collide with each other and shatter...creating rings of debrees which end up in a ring that gradually forms between a couple of the remaining planets...some of the planets closer in collide,and still being closer to the star,they are hot enough that they gain new moons eventually from these impacts...(this begins a long gulf of calm...id say late 2013 to mid 2014)

11: solar system phase 2:...as the remaining planets are pepperd with the water and organic chemical bearing comets...they begin accumulating atmospheres,and this is where we find out which planets are life sustaining or not...of course the gas giants already have there own atmospheres and weather systems,but ill get to that in a minute...some of the planets have primordial atmospheres,poisonous of course,but still developing into possibly life bearing things.....

after a good long time,it turns out that some of the planets,maybe on or two,are too close to the star,and end up having there atmospheres roasted away,or broken down by solar wind into unbreathable mires...the gas giants become too massive for there own good,and being on the outer edges of the solar system,it turns out there too cold and stagnant to support life...while a small amount of planets,maybe 2 or three,are in the habitable zone of the star,and hold on to there atmospheres,the water and organic chemicals react with the crust,overtime forming very unusual and interesting things...still no life yet though

and then after awhile,one of the planets in the habitable zone,again due to perturbance by another star`s gravity...collides with another one of the habitable zone planets,creating a massive explosion,that hurls some of the resultant planet`s mass into space,where it is re attracted into the gravity well...and then forms a nice little moon...but at the sametime,the force of this titanic impact,the resultant new planet,and the shift in the gravity perturbs the remaining habitable zone planet ever so slightly,beggining a long chain of events (the rest of 2014, yo,im guessing this follows a game shifting update,something so massive it alters the entire nature of the game,introduces some bugs which are later solved)

12.solar system phase three: all is well...for the moment...and then a miracle happens,life!the remaining two habitable zone planets have the first single celled organisms...the beggining of an unstoppable force,that can never be shut down in its entirety.....unfortunately,one of these planets is not long for time as the preturbance i mentioned earlier had shifted it`s orbit ever so slightly,ruining it`s bare hold on stability (due to the planet`s too small mass),and eventually the life on it dies off due to the constant bombardment of the solar wind....however,on the other planet things are great...life keeps on going,,,eventually evolving into multi celluar organisms which start converting the atmosphere into something breathable...(the finality of the emergent,things heal up,the game developes its own solid and stable culture...it keeps on chugging along at a good pace,adding new updates every so often,possibly fixing bugs on time...

13.Welcome home: the first recognizeable life forms appear on the remaining life bearing planet,,,plants,and small sea creature and the like,the atmosphere is further converted into something nice...and it follows that evolution continues from there,( where we go from here,i leave up to you guys,as this all depends on the players)

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tl;dr version:

a round three year or so timespan,
in which the game will go through upheavel,then be calm,the one more big smack and its all done....with al lsorts of cool things going on at the end...and people being happy

to quote the dreamworld version of jim morrison from wayne`s world "have faith my freind,if you book them,they will come"

also,please pardon my grammar and typos..im chugging down energy drinks at the moment,and also have about as much conversational tact as a flying brick

Baphomet, I just want to acknowledge that as being officially the most nerdy post I've ever seen here in the forums, and I love it for that!

(I disagree though - unlike nature or fine wines, if a game loses traction it usually doesn't age well. Of course there's always an initial drop-off but a well-designed MMO should be stickier than your average RPG).

SWTOR as a planetary youngling is already how many years in the making?

I have a different list of what has gone wrong with MMORPG's.


Voice comms were introduced,

Quest helpers, quest arrows, addins, introduced,

Choice of games available has increased ,

Forums,

Basically, Games such as Meridian, UO, EQ, DAOC, initially required people to type in game and come to grips with their own characters strengths and weaknesses, in game.

The advent of voice comms and website walk throughs has made development of challenging yet fun in game dungeons/tasks a much more difficult problem. We no longer ask "that guy" ingame that knows everything, we just look it up, no challenge, little fun, short duration before bored......

It ended up how it did because SOE had no clue what to do when WOW hit the shelves, instead of sticking to there game, they tried to copy WOW to keep up with the jones's, so to speak , and failed miserably at it.
Mainly down to plonking a whole different game on top of another game. At a point they actually got a good balance and mixed Sandbox and Theme-park quite well. The only thing that really let it down was poor graphics, a dated engine and SOE's greed in introducing the TCG (micro transactions effectively) on top of a subscription.

Had they stuck to thier guns and maintained the very good sub base they had, SWG would have been the leader still in sandbox MMOs, would have also been an ambassador for future sandbox games, and hopefully have rivaled WOW.

Instead SOE didnt want to get left behind, tried to adjust the game, lost all their subs and effectively destroyed any further successful sandbox MMOS from being developed (EVE excluded), because of the monumental failure on their part, to recognize that sometimes a niche market is better than the norm.

Eve has managed to carve out its own little corner and has a dedicated sub base exclusive to that game, its unique in its own right and isnt scared to break any boundaries. But its only desirable ti certain people, as it involves extreme Sandbox, major PVP and a very complicated economy. This however does not need to be the norm for Sandbox.

WOW then went onto storm the castle, and effectively leave the genre in the state it is today, where everything is a clone in one way or another of something Blizzard have been successful at. Unfortunately they captured a mass market of teenagers and the MMO genre was doomed from then on.

IMHO the next big MMO will be NON Fantasy , NON sci-fi and hold some realism with regard to its game-play, BUT will mix Sandbox and Theme-park to effectively change the market........Only problem is who will do it and how long will we wait. EVE is the heavyweight in Sandbox, WOW the heavyweight in Thempark.

Can SWTOR develop something that crosses the boarders.............Or are Bioware and EA so set on being nothing special at all, and happy to trudge along in second place to WOW, and not even in the same league as EVE..

Only time will tell.

TO sum up...

Its all SOE and WOWs fault....

4 later

i would like to add that i think you missed one IMO
class servers
not sure when this started but the first mmo i remember playingwith it in was wow and i feel that separating servers by pvp pve and rp can be a bad idea.

ive played on pvp servers and battles in those feel epic and real players will use tactics plan out battles and defenders will counter (u get the picture)

RP server have a brilliant community they almost always help others can talk about lore of the game and can make u feel welcome.

PVE servers seem to be in the middle but don’t get either right.

But the problem here isnt just design it the players, when i played SWG the servers had no diction there was no rp or pvp servers if u wanted to pvp u ran around flagged if you wanted to rp you would click a button and a little rp would be next to your name, if you wanted to simply quest u could and people didnt mock each other for their choices (which sadly pvp playesr will mock rp players) .

the problem is many people like to do all 3 of these things sometimes i like to simply quest, other times i will pvp and sometimes i want to sit back and just RP. The problem is that playes who want to try it all cant RP servers tend to have poor pvp and you are mocked and heckled in PVE and PVP servers for trying to RP.