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BW going against the idea of MMORPG?


NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
07.04.2012 , 01:01 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Crooching View Post
Ranked warzones are not a social thing. They are for 8 players to play together, communicating, most likely fellow guildies. It's for competitive pvp, which is probably why you are loosing so fast with your pug group, hence why everyone leaves after 1 loss.

You can queue solo, up to 4, in regular warzones. Do that.

As for the social aspect for pve, and your 'ready check', this already exists. When a group is formed, every member must accept the queue, therefore stating that they are there. If the shuttle bugged for you, then it was just that, a bug. However, Bioware has no control over peoples mind's (yet). They cannot stop another player dying, or doing stupid things. This is why guilds are popular, to complete harder content with people you can rely on, as well as the social aspect of course.
Though I appreciate your input, I unfortunately disagree. I wish we could agree.

First disagreement; "Ranked WZ is not social" think about what you just said "They are for 8 players to play together, communicating" sounds social to me. I honestly don't see your point here. All I'm saying is that it could be EASIER to be social, in turn prolonging the game's life because people will feel like they got what they paid for.

Second disagreement; "Bioware has no control over peoples mind's (yet)." This is actually based on theory. Theoretically BW does have control over what happens in our minds about their game, by using limitations and opportunity. For example I want to run fast, BW says "you can't" by writing code that limits me in the first place. Therefore they controlled, or limited my control.

Than the opposite is true. If I want to run fast, and one-thousand other people wanted to run fast, and we all blogged about it, and BW decided to make it happen. Again BW let this happen, in turn taking control of the outcome in which we both took part.

I know this sounds funny but there is always an answer to a problem, especially a virtual one. The answer is BW. They do have control, and in a virtual world can do pretty much anything, creating the opportunity for more social finesse. I believe BW is working hard to do this, I just want to make sure they do. It's for all of our benefit.

Again;
This is similar to a government, or a church. When people are willing to be a part, and do great things, but are limited they will not support the power, or go somewhere else. In this case it's a lot easier to jump on someone elses "ship" via a URL.

In a lot of cases BW is just protecting themselves and their revenue. That's smart, and in turn we all benefit, by having a community that sticks around for the long hull . But the point is that SOCIAL FINESSE is more important than timely missions, and is entirely possible. It's possible for Ranked WZ and regular social missions. I believe BW is trying their best, and GF is evidence of that. I just want to make sure.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
07.04.2012 , 01:14 PM | #12
Boss lockouts in raid are there in most MMOs, that's certainly nothing new. Yes, you won't be able to use the group finder for Karagga's Palace, for example, if members of your group killed at least one boss before failing.

NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
07.04.2012 , 01:17 PM | #13
And I also wanted to say GUILDS ARE NOT THE ANSWER. Not shouting...just want to make it known before I get another guild response.

If guilds worked 100% than we would have never needed group finder in the first place.

Maybe you want to change your argument to a "really huge guild", or a "really awesome guild that helps me all the time".

But both of these guilds have disadvantages, and are not a strong argument. Even Guilds can be limited when trying to interact socially.

I could have been with my guild when these things happened, and they would have still happened.

NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
07.04.2012 , 01:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Boss lockouts in raid are there in most MMOs, that's certainly nothing new. Yes, you won't be able to use the group finder for Karagga's Palace, for example, if members of your group killed at least one boss before failing.
Thanks Siorac . At least you solidified a part of this. ^ is an example of what I'm talking about.

Who cares if it's in other MMO's that doesn't make it right! We are here to have fun, and to have fun with others. Limitations are not fun. Especially when they are against our whole group.

If I want to play with my friends, and I can't find enough people, why shouldn't these "boss beaters" be able to play? It would make finding groups even easier! Right? Everyone's happy!

Why wouldn't you want everything to be easier, for people to be happier? If those who killed "one boss" got a special drop or something give them social points and limit them from drops. Also give them a warning ahead of time so they don't get mad later on.

IT IS possible to have more SOCIAL FINESSE and in turn for fans to be HAPPIER with SWTOR.


16 unhappy people are not a good thing to under justify.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
07.04.2012 , 01:27 PM | #15
Well, the reason for having these lockouts is simple: longevity. If people can just keep farming the bosses every day, every hour, they will 1) gear up pretty quickly, 2) will be sick of the whole thing before long. Devs want you to keep playing longer. Hence the mechanic that only allows you to defeat an operation boss once a week.

NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
07.04.2012 , 01:31 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Well, the reason for having these lockouts is simple: longevity. If people can just keep farming the bosses every day, every hour, they will 1) gear up pretty quickly, 2) will be sick of the whole thing before long. Devs want you to keep playing longer. Hence the mechanic that only allows you to defeat an operation boss once a week.
I agree with this, and I mentioned this above. The question comes down to Fun VS Longevity of the game VS. Stress.

But when 8 to 16 players spend a whole night trying to do something and it never happens. Then try again the next day and it never happens. I'm sorry. That's just wrong, and you can't justify your money's worth.

Crooching's Avatar


Crooching
07.05.2012 , 12:46 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by NoaFlux View Post
I agree with this, and I mentioned this above. The question comes down to Fun VS Longevity of the game VS. Stress.

But when 8 to 16 players spend a whole night trying to do something and it never happens. Then try again the next day and it never happens. I'm sorry. That's just wrong, and you can't justify your money's worth.

It's called progression raiding. It's not supposed to be easy, it takes time. Perhaps you need to take a look at the people in your team, BW can't dim down all their content just for the sake of pugs raiding, that's what story mode is for. Content is already easy enough, certainly EV and KP.

On your argument against my point of RWZ's not being social, by that I meant, they are not there to be attempted by a random public group. That's why you have normal warzones. A pug group will never win against a guilded group, using teamspeak, with coordination.

Guilds very much ARE the answer. Ranked warzones are exactly that, competitive pvp.Writing this in blue to apply my point
You wouldn't let a random group of people who had just met the other day join a competitive sporting league, and if they were allowed to join, nobody would expect them to win anything.

It miff's me why you think its a social issue that you cannot get a ranked warzone with random people. The only social issue here is that all the good social pvp'ers are in a guild doing ranked warzones, as that's what you do. Nobody pugs a ranked warzone and expects to win. Did I make myself clear?
The Red Eclipse -
Rattak, Watchman Sentinel
Larnia, Sawbones Scoundrel

NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
07.07.2012 , 10:22 AM | #18
I might agree with you on the Ranked thing. I am referring more to PVE groups. I understand the structure of PvP is way different, and like you said is more like sports.

My whole point is about the TIME it takes not the actual process etc.

When a group of people are ready to go! and we can't..."go". and we have to wait for almost two hours...over and over again...ALL BECAUSE OF LIMITATIONS...that's not good, and BW needs to stop that.

Groups are ready to get social...and we can't.

BW is aware of all this that's why they created group finder. Next they need to make it easier to group with people...by taking out some restrictions that go against GF in a way. Because if you FIND a group but you can't play with them. Who cares?