1.3 Juggernaut Changes

I sign up under every word you say here. I'll try to keep what I have to say civil although my nerd rage levels are boiling dangerously already having passed the critical mass. I was too busy fighting for a free transfer for Lord Calypho to notice what they are doing to my class. I would like to say that playing my beloved Immortal is now completely unchallenging and boring experience, nerfed to the ground in PVP and significantly in PVE boss fights. But who cares - lets zerg through Black Talon and get LOOTZ!

I like to think I am a decent tank and my current progression is Warlord Kephess HM (we are 2 day raiding guild). So I can say I actively tanked every fight in the game and I have enough experience to post on this matter. Now, I can only blame myself for not researching 1.3 changes and not speaking on this before. Now that the changes are already implemented God only knows if they will be reversed (which should be done).

Now ad meritum - back in a day class design was based on endgame PVE and PVP and boost to AOE threat was an optional thing that you spec into. Now, with the introduction of 1.3 group finder Bioware decided to also include an idiot mode threat boost for all tanks. In the process they ruined Juggernaut. Because keeping aggro on a whole pack of mobs in a flashpoint is SOOOOO important... The overflow of Sunder Armor stacks, nerfed but free Backhand and completely useless AOE on Crushing Blow are awful changes. 50% threat boost on Soresu + boost to Sweeping Slash was more than enough to make us viable AOE tanks. Now our burst initial and single target tools (backhand and crushing blow) have been nerfed to oblivion and as the poster I quote noticed - we are not any more viable tanks than Vengeance Juggernaut in Soresu form. Why even go for Immortal when something that's supposed to be your cherry on top of a cake (31 point Crushing Blow) is now useless ****? Crushing Blow in previous form made sense because you used it on single target bosses to build your stacks quickly and burst a bit for single target threat. Now that BOTH CB and Backhand are nerfed Assault is equally viable for threat generation.

I'm not even starting on PVP... it's self explanatory and I play Rage anyway.

Sorry for that little constructive bit - ranting and moaning is apparently the way to go - the developers of this game already made it obvious to me that they don't do things that make sense (or don't know what that is). Instead, they cater to whining crowds. Someone can't keep aggro on anything because they can't instruct the DPS to attack the weak targets first and elites last in a flashpoint or blow their AOE taunt on single mobs because they don't know how to keep aggro? They go, post here with their "OMG Powertechs AOE threat is so OP" and the result is here. Extremely, extremely disappointing and another proof that BW has no clue.

P.S. Crushing Blow attacking 2 targets more... still can't stop laughing and crying at the same time.

Complete agreement....

Crushing blow is a complete joke. Sure it works great for the four packs in the Black Hole or KP, other then that it useless on any type of boss fight. That's if you can get enough stacks before the mob dies.I even had to ask my healers if something was wrong last night during our weekly ops runs, because I felt I was getting worked over.

Juggernauts/Knights, in my opinion, were suppose to be the staple of this game. They were suppose to be the prime example of what all tanks should be, it's suppose to be the most brutal/damage absorbing/meanest mother effer in the game.

Sadly it was mildly weak and pathetic before, now the class is just a joke.

Most people will be going for hybrid myself included. Reverse this change to Crushing Blow ASAP.

Firstly, all tanks must do roughly the same damage - be it low or high. Juggernaut is not on par with other classes. If you are world progression ranking you should know that every little helps and what you posted before about dps not doing their job if you need a tank to dps is just not the case.

Secondly, the 31 talent point - something that is supposed to feel like a reward for going that deep into the tree and be your signature skill has been made virtually useless. if you are happy with it being useful on EC trash or any other several mobs packs be my guest but that is not something I expect from my best move. The nerf to the ability was excessive.

I am really, really sad now that 1.3 is live.

I was loving playing my Immortal spec in pvp, I just fell into the role really well. Using dps gear I could put out respectable damage and using taunts and guard I could make everyone live longer.

The nerf to Crushing blow breaks my heart...not to mention the nerf to backhand and Soresu in general.
Sure, it's got a cool "Intercede-esque" explosion and some cracks to go along with it now...but I cry a little every time I use Crushing Blow now. It's a fancy, 31 pt, wet noodle attack.

Giving tanks a clear and useful role in pvp was groundbreaking in the MMO world, and that has now been destroyed - War Leader's defense stats are close to worthless in pvp (along with the set bonuses) and now even with the Vindicator set the Immortal spec's damage is laughable.

Damn the nerf bat to hell. The last time someone swung it around in a Star Wars MMO...................

I should know that every little bit helps? I do. But I also know that as of right now, in 16 man HM EC, it's not needed. The little bit from tanks doesn't make any difference. The only thing we saw on Tuesday was better trash pulls, better threat on Kephiss's adds, and more threat on bosses. We didn't even feel the damage nerf as a raid, not even in the slightest.

The nerf to the ability was excessive. It was, I won't dispute that. Do I think they should unchange it? Yes. Do I think going hybrid to tank is a wise move? Absolutely not.

this..

and this..

This is *********** unbelievable, someone please rub this into BW devs face?

I could not agree more... seriously *** are they doing, these devs - I do not comprehend.

I shall contemplate on it..

ps. the juggernaut name alone is a mother effing killer name already, along with the way the jug stands with his saber ready to fight, it's like the f ' ing grim reaper of jedis.. yet they're the weakest of all, bunch of ********s.

Sith assassins even tank better, WHAT THE **** I TELL YOU? Sorry, but it does not fit in my brain how it can be possible, I don't want it to fit in my brain, to put it more correctly.

I'm strictly end-game PVE Juggernaut Tank, and single-target bosses are 99% of the work. Who cares about trash /multiple mobs? Good crowd control takes care of that. The AOE threat generation is nice, but when wailing on bosses like Toth and Zorn, there's only one mob. 6% damage lost with the single-saber mastery change and reduced damage on backhand blow and crushing blow basically means jugg tanks get a dps nerf. We were already behind on DPS with powertechs and SIN tanks; now we're even farther behind.

6% melee damage in trade for nothing but 30% more threat on Smash and Sweeping Strike isn't that great.
Why Blade Barricade got reduced I do not know - if it wouldn't have been nerfed the patch might have been more favorable.

Backhand is a pretty good change, as is the threat modifier buff obviously.

Crushing Blow ... don't know what to say here other than wonder if Bioware is insane. 18/23/0 was a great spec before and is clearly superior now, for damage as well as single- and multi-target threat.

Changes that still need to be done for tank juggernauts are many. Crushing Blow needs more single target potential (as simple as a +damage modifier if it hits only one target), overall damage has to be buffed to a level where the other tanks are right now and Enraged Defense must not drop threat if used in Soresu form. Deafening Defense is probably also a contender for the Immortal tree as it's clearly a tank oriented talent. Maybe Tier 2 might be a good spot for it so damage dealer's survivability isn't going to get nerfed by moving the talent.

Blade Barricade didn't get nerfed, it got buffed.

The only reason a hybrid would be better for threat is because it would do more damage, which isn't important as a tank and I hold single and AoE threat just fine in full Immortal.

The word we're looking for here is "unnecessary".