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Who was Justified in the Star Wars Movies?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Who was Justified in the Star Wars Movies?

RedRock's Avatar


RedRock
12.18.2011 , 02:24 PM | #11
I would say the prequals the republic was justified, mostly because they are reacting to the current events (the CIS blockading planets and breaking peace treaties). Once the republic became an empire there reactions are justified because they are trying t maintain control of their empire, while a bunch of no good rebels try and cause chaos amongst the peace.

The clone trooper however, are the only ones justified in the entire thing. They had their orders, and are doing what any military group would do if their government asked them too.
That and the contractors of the empire, which is the old "Clerks" debate.
A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
CE

grndmaster's Avatar


grndmaster
12.18.2011 , 02:42 PM | #12
History is written by the winners. Doesn't matter which side is 'good' or 'bad' it'll be written so it looks like the winners were the liberators or fighters of justice or whatever, the bad guys will look like the evil-doers trying to ruin the good guys perfect vision of the future.

JediArchives's Avatar


JediArchives
12.18.2011 , 03:43 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by UncleJimbo View Post

The Republic was wrong to answer with force when planets/systems wished to leave the Republic,
Did you watch Episode 2? I guess the CIS hiring a Bounty Hunter to assassinate a Republic Senator is not justification...

I also guess the Republic should have allowed the CIS to continue producing their illegal droid army, and allowed them to attack the Republic and overwhelm the Jedi. (As Obi-Wan overheard their plans to invade the Republic and reported this to the Jedi Council/Senate)

And the Jedi didn't invade Geonosis to attack the CIS...they did it to save Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan, who were to be executed in a barbaric way.

Seriously, you wanted to have a discussion about the movies...but you guys are choosing to ignore certain factors just so you can make the CIS look good...which you really can't. Corrupt corporations and greedy individuals made up the Separatist Council...how do you think they're better than what the Republic was at that time?
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
- T Paine

Starcloud's Avatar


Starcloud
12.18.2011 , 03:58 PM | #14
The CIS wanted to secede. They weren't going to be the aggressors; that wasn't their nature. Remember, the Trade Federation had to be pushed into invading Naboo, by Palpatine. The CIS had to be pushed into banding together to secede, by Dooku, who was also Palpatine's 'apprentice'.

In actual fact, the Republic attacked the Separatists *first*. Palpatine manipulated the Senate into declaring war on the Separatists.

The entire war was designed, by Palpatine, to have the following goals: To increase the power of the Chancellor's Office so that Palpatine could eventually become Emperor in a legal fashion; to eliminate Jedi by dispersing them, making them vulnerable as individuals, and killing them directly or indirectly; to eliminate the Jedi Order as a credible political force; to discredit the Jedi Order so that they could not form a nucleus of resistance to Palpatine's Empire.

The entire *war* was the Phantom Menace; the real threat came from within, at the top, with Palpatine's manipulations.

JediArchives's Avatar


JediArchives
12.18.2011 , 06:08 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Starcloud View Post
The CIS wanted to secede. They weren't going to be the aggressors.

Except for the part where they were planning on invading the Republic and overwhelming the Jedi with their infinite (and illegal) droid army...which Dooku says straight up to the Separatist Council (I'm amazed how people love to forget this part)

I'm not denying that all this came about because of Palpatine and Dooku. The CIS likely would not have even reached the point of seccession WITHOUT them.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
- T Paine

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.18.2011 , 07:25 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by RedRock View Post
I would say the prequals the republic was justified, mostly because they are reacting to the current events (the CIS blockading planets and breaking peace treaties). Once the republic became an empire there reactions are justified because they are trying t maintain control of their empire, while a bunch of no good rebels try and cause chaos amongst the peace.

The clone trooper however, are the only ones justified in the entire thing. They had their orders, and are doing what any military group would do if their government asked them too.
That and the contractors of the empire, which is the old "Clerks" debate.
What? So your saying that any regular military(not being clones, hence they have more then free will) would just go along with whatever orders they are given? Theres a difference between following an order and following an unlawful order.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

patoman's Avatar


patoman
12.18.2011 , 07:56 PM | #17
If human history is any measure, using violence and waging war for freedom is wholly justified.

While it can be used for the wrong ends.... It can be used for for what are considered right ones, the American revolution, allies in world war two.

You fight fire with fire, realistic solutions for a all two gritty real world. If new holy prophet suddenly appeared and got Hitler to step down through pacifism then all means that would be great, but yea, that didn't happen. Shermans in massive numbers however did work (in addition to many other toys and massive numbers).

Empire in star wars world was basically the oppressive dictatorship government who found it acceptable to do orbital bombardments with star disroyers on populated worlds, and in case of the death star destroying them to put down rebellion. The deathstar while large is a military installation, by all current and future conducts of proper war blowing it up is perfectly a acceptable target. Blowing up a planet with a large civilian population however is genocide and destruction on a level that even real world people have not done yet (makes hitler look like a nice guy), that we don't even recognize it as horrific as it is because it is too large of a destruction to comprehend, so just basically try to imagine instead of a fictional planet it was earth, and it was not evacuated and everyone and everything was on it, yea that's not nice.

As to the trade federation, the jedi came as diplomats and did not become hostile until they themselves were targeted. Though the trade federation is at fault for being very stupid unless under mind control following a sinister person in a robe who looked like death asking them to put everything on the line for little gain. Red box prequal review : P

Why didn't the trade federation keep holorecordings and show those to the republic when they were arrested "It wasn't our fault, it was this guy pulling the strings, hey hey kind of looks like senator palpatine with a robe"

Empirarte's Avatar


Empirarte
12.18.2011 , 08:54 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JediArchives View Post
Did you watch Episode 2? I guess the CIS hiring a Bounty Hunter to assassinate a Republic Senator is not justification...

I also guess the Republic should have allowed the CIS to continue producing their illegal droid army, and allowed them to attack the Republic and overwhelm the Jedi. (As Obi-Wan overheard their plans to invade the Republic and reported this to the Jedi Council/Senate)

And the Jedi didn't invade Geonosis to attack the CIS...they did it to save Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan, who were to be executed in a barbaric way.

Seriously, you wanted to have a discussion about the movies...but you guys are choosing to ignore certain factors just so you can make the CIS look good...which you really can't. Corrupt corporations and greedy individuals made up the Separatist Council...how do you think they're better than what the Republic was at that time?

I'm not that fond of the CIS, but I don't like how everyone assumes the Jedi side is always right. So from what I can tell, the Trade Federation and Count Dooku have been causing most of the trouble in terms of the assassination attempts. I don't think three spies, despite their importance, should not be the cause of a galaxy wide war which will lead to the death of billions of lives. If the CIS attacked first, then of course they should be able to fight back but they had little confirmation of any invasion taking place and used no diplomatic weight to tell them to stop making such large armies, they just charged in.

The droid army wasn't really illegal if the CIS was actually a Confederation of Independent Systems; they should be able to have their own military like the Republic had on a smaller scale to deal with local crises and pirates.

What I am basically trying to say is that the Republic should have tried more peaceful tactics before invading Geonosis and launching such a destructive war.

thecordler's Avatar


thecordler
12.18.2011 , 08:57 PM | #19
The difference between the clone wars and Rebellion era, was that the CIS were mostly a bunch of mega corporations that were seeking to empower themselves over the appointed elected officials to improve their profit, at their core they were avoiding taxation not fighting for free ideals against dictatorial law. In fact the corruption within the senate was mostly brought upon by the trade federation, techno union and banking clans, as they bought off elective seats in hopes to ultimately gain control over the senate. Palpatine learned of this and used it as his main foundation to his own political rise, threatening many elected officials to support his own agendas, and ultimately swaying them away from the CIS. WHen the trade federation and techno union realized they had paid and installed political senators that sought to turn against them they were contacted by the sith, and of course you all know what happens next. they target a planet of the senator who is mostly spear heading the taxation laws, hope that the sith can contain the issue which they don't and ultimately decided to start a war that will 100s of billions of lives over the loss of profit and power in the galaxy.

The Rebellion was started by former senators, freedom fighters, and jedi, hoping to topple a government which was alienating aliens to slave labor, empowering the Human race, and using military might to disband freedom and democracy, the ability to vote against laws and amendments that took away the freedom of people.

The Clone Wars and CIS was fought over money and politics, a comparison to what many people label the fromer current iraq war

The rebellion and Rebel alliance war was fought over freedom and racial oppression, hoping to overthrow the malicious dictator that was killing and blowing up planets just to show the galaxy their strength, as tarkin said Fear was the policy.

GenBelisarius's Avatar


GenBelisarius
12.18.2011 , 11:15 PM | #20
The Republic was justified in the prequel trilogy. The rebels were Justified in the original trilogy. As count Dooku said, they would hold the republic hostage with their massive droid army, to get whatever they wanted. It doesn't matter that the sith was behind it, it matters that the CIS went behind it for their own greed. Sidious knew this was a great possibility and used it for HIS own benefit.
There was a secret arms race between the CIS and the republic, but the republic did not know either was happening (those systems that were not part of the CIS). The empire being evil in the OT is obvious.