When is bioware going to fix tank assassins in dps gear?

You do realize that he's pulling big numbers while under dps spec, right ?

Or maybe it's another case of that famous 31/31/31 build...

... Try to think before posting, thanks.

He won't tell us what class he's playing or why he does fail so hard.

Please refrain from being rude and conduct yourself civilly and maturely, or don't bother posting at all. Calling someone's opinion "crap" because you either disagree and/or have a vested interest in the AC being discussed is neither of these.

Now to address your response.....

My opinion is as unbiased as you're going to find in this thread. I have no problem whatsoever with any AC who can beat me 1v1. The problem I have is when they can beat me and two other players by themselves because they do too much damage while still being too hard to kill. Regardless of whether you agree with my suggestions about how to fix that or not, you can't deny that there is a problem here with tank specs wearing DPS gear. You either need to be one, or the other. Having both results in fundamental imbalances to the PvP dynamics of this game.

That said, let me ask you a slightly rhetorical question. Have you actually tried wearing tank gear with a tank spec in PvP? I suspect the answer to that is no, because like most tanks who have been using DPS gear, they would have to repurchase their WH gear to do that or they would need to have two sets of PvP gear in order to compare one to the other. But until you've tried it, how can you comment on its effectiveness?

I have the benefit of knowing a player who wears tank gear while in his tank spec. He is remarkably effective at denying objectives, and considering all WZs in this game are objective based, he's more often the reason his team wins than any other single player. It takes at least 3 DPS of equal gear to bring him down, and that's assuming he doesn't have a healer anywhere near him, and even with 3 DPS focus firing him, he cannot be killed quickly. He's therefore more than capable of denying an objective while he waits for his teammates to reinforce his position. More experienced teams will avoid the objective he's guarding because he's often too difficult to bring down quickly enough to capture the objective before his help arrives. I'd say he'd disagree with you completely about tank stats not being useful in PvP. If you want to talk with him, his name is "Fluxs" on the Beregen Colony. I'm sure he'd be willing to share some of his experiences with you.

And that brings me back to my point. If you are playing a tank role in PvP, your role is to guard healers and to deny objectives. That's it. You shouldn't be able to DPS out of a wet paper bag, but you should be very hard to take down. Conversely, if you want to DPS, you should sacrifice the damage mitigation of a tank to do so. No one with any desire for game balance can argue otherwise.


EDIT: If you have doubts about anything I've said, or about how mistaken you are about tanks in tank gear in PvP, please refer to the video in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=490381

I think that clearly points to your and the TOs key problem. Either u need to work on your skill or your team play ... in any case its purely a L2P issue and not gear based.

Furthermore I can't understand how you dare to try to rule other people gear choice. Having choices is a good thing and benefits good players who like to explore and adept. The one's who refuse to learn and adept will loose even a 3vs1

I think all of this can be fixed with a nice big concealment operative nerf, hell i had one almost get me down to half health the other day in his from stealth burst opening rotation.

I'm not calling for nerfs for anyone until Rated WZs come out, but you DO realize that Tanksins beat EVERY class/spec 1v1 right?

It takes a very good Tanksins to do it since they have a ton of skills to use, and properly timing and comboing them takes a lot of effort. However, once you learn how to counter each class you will find that you can beat ANYONE as a tanksin. They really do have no counters in a 1v1 environment.

The only way to "beat" a tanksin is hope he is under geared or hasn't learned how to counter your class yet.

But I could care less about 1v1 balance. I am far more interested how the classes are balanced in regards to 8 man premades for Rated WZs. While I do think that Tanksins bring way to much to a team(Fills the role of a Tank perfectly, Awesome burst damage, Most CC in the game, Arguably the best at EVERY objective, and does it all at once). I am willing to wait and see how it plays out before any serious balancing needs to occur.

Thats alot of text...
I'd say assassins 2v1 abilities are more of a cd thing then a class thing. I've gotten 2v1'd by a tankassin as a tankassin (am max'd full wh myself...). Its as simple as getting mezz'd twice while your healer gets stunned twice and unloaded on, and then them proceeding to get lucky in the 1v1. If youre already nearly spent and the assassin is fresh, they are going to lock you down really really well... Its how the class works... even assassin vs assassin.

Um... am I missing something here? No other tanks perform like Tanksin? What? when did they nerf "Iron fist"?

I don't remember them buffing Darkness or Nerfing anything in the Iron fist build. As a person who plays both I can honestly say I have no Idea which is more effective. I love them both.

Though they both do great in all aspects of PvP I do have preference.

Vs Other classes.

I will take my Iron fist Vanguard over my Shadow any day against healers period. My shadow just cannot keep up the damage pressure and keep those heals interrupted reliably. My Vanguard can completely shut down a healer in a way my Shadow cannot dream of.

I like my shadow more for fighting DPS. the Vanguard has a little less DPS than the shadow and a little less in the way of active defense so while over all my vanguard takes less damage. the amount my Shadow can heal back makes his defenses more effective in solo situations. the nice part of fighting DPS with my shadow is once they get in that execute range they are pretty much finished. Where they can still get away from my Vanguard.

In Warzones

I prefer my vanguard in Huttball as a defender. I can stop targets easier with infinite slows and roots not to mention pinpoint accuracy on pulling them off the ramps and getting back up ramps with a charge.

I prefer my shadow in Huttball as offensive. Sprints and defensive cooldowns make for great running skills and a well timed knock back can be all that is needed to get into the endzone.

In Civil war / Novare coast I love them both as defenders. However I will venture to ninja a node with my shadow long before I will try with my Van simply because of stealth. But I am hard pressed to pick which one I feel is the better defender. While my Shadow can take 2 DPS at once if I play the encounter perfectly. A good healer will nitpick me to death with no problem. My Van can pretty much take anything 1v 1 but falls short on almost any 2v1 situation. However my Van shines with a partner especially a healing one in ways that my Shadow just cannot. So truly I cannot say which is the better.

In voidstar I am 100% attack mode on my Shadow, sprinting from door to door and supplying support for where ever it is needed. Mobile tank tossing guards on whomever needs them. On my Van I usually post up with a healer and 2 man cover a door weather its Offense or Defense I can hold a door hostage for much longer than my more bursty less utility having Shadow can. With a healer at my back my Van is near unstoppable in ways my shadow wishes he could be.

VS eachother.

I have a better win rate on my Van vs tanksins than on my shadow vs tank powertechs. Though I feel that has something more to do with the rarity of tank Powertechs than anything. I break about even on my fights with Tanksins on my Vanguard and I can honestly say that most of them that do beat me do by running away repeatedly and grabbing WZ buffs returning and taking me out. Most that stay and fight lose. (I typically attribute that to bad playing) so I would say IMHO Tanksin > Ironfist in the situations of 1v1. But since Warzones aren't 1v1 I don't really mind it. And I would hardly say that a Tanksin > Vanguards in PVP period.

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Edit

As for tank gear in PVP I haven't tried it since well before 1.2. Back then I just didn't see a reason for it. Shield effects and defense just don't reliably work against many classes attacks in PVP So I and a lot of tanks don't see a reason to use them. Armor, HP, and damage reduction skills are just better tank stats than the others and you can get those easily while still using DPS gear. that is the reason so many tanks use DPS gear instead of tanking gear. Becase BW decided tanking gear needed to be less effective in PVP. The difference in survivability for my Vanguard (my only tank pre 1.2) in PVP with tank gear or DPS gear was so negligible It was sad. So I went DPS gear and never looked back. Perhaps if those shielding buffs ever get implemented in pvp I will try tank gear again. Since that is what I really wanted to do in PVP in the first place.

And it doesn't happen. They can do that in tank STANCE but not in tank spec. Their mitigation is relatively low as many attacks in this game bypass armour anyway so Soresu form doesn't do much for them, apart from being able to Guard healers which is useful I admit. But they will want to play in Shii-Cho from tomorrow because of the 6% damage boost it gives to Force attacks with Single Saber Mastery.

Defense spec in DPS gear is basically useless. Low survivability, low damage (I tried it once after forgetting to respec after an Operation, it was painful ). It's notot like Assassin/Shadow tanks at all

That's a good point and clarification, and therefore a flawed comparison I made to Shadows/Assassins.