Next time EA announces number of subs...

So, your evidence and support for your argument is a blog from someone who doesn't back up his statement of "anyone in a free trial period" with any kind of data or facts?

Look, I'm not asking you to take EA's word on faith. I'm asking you to use logic. If a company is going to publicly declare what their revenue generators are, do you really think that they are going to play fast and loose with the facts in this day and age of SEC hyper-oversight and activist investors? And do you really think they're going to do that for a game that isn't their number one revenue generator? Do you really think they're going to want to risk possible litigation, criminal charges, and corporation bankrupcy just to inflate the numbers of something that isn't in their top five money making ventures?

Or do you think they're going to play it safe and not take that kind of chance?

So all those play for free subscriptions in July will count too, even though they do not generate revenue?

What does it even matter how much the numbers are skewed? What ever they do or dont count is irrelevent. Its not like that number means anything to us. All we csre about is wether it goes up or down. Up = good, Down= bad. Furthermore, we just use that number to compare how the game is doing in proportion to others who ALSO skew the numbers just the same. So really, arguing on the accuracy of those announcements is pointless.

I doubt it would go up. There isn't much of the 'second chance' factor, especially when a monthly fee is involved. The game has some fundamental game design and technical issues, that are bottleneck-ing its potential. I expect it would become just a niche MMO, played by a couple of hundreds of thousands die-hard SW fans. Pretty much similar to LOTRO, or (most probably) bit worse.

I'd love to see the game overcoming its major problems and expanding. I really like some aspects of it. But I'll probably leave as soon as I spot a real MMO alternative. You know, stuff like open world without too much instancing, world PvP, exploration, faction-based drama, less e-peen-controlled immature brains, ....

Simply put, they have months, if not years, of work still ahead of them to maintain a steady population.

Chances are pretty good that you wont see a positive population trend for this game for quite some time. Playing this game is like reading The Dwindling Party.

Again it is perfectly legal and correct too count all those options in active accounts, which is what most MMORPGs have done for more than a decade now.

What Bioware actually counts is impossible to tell, unless they specifically state it, but they will likely count what most other MMORPGs count.......... which is all of the above.

There's no conspiracy here, nor any "risk", it's not "fast and loose", it's perfectly acceptable.... it's just what the industry does.

It's also the reason WoW can claim the subs figures it does (and has).

Although it was largely SoE that pushed the boundaries of what can counted way back in EQ1.

Yes to a degree, but equally anyone interested in the health of the game gains nothing from fooling themselves (that won't generate revenue for development or expansion pack) over what is mostly likely counted.

Seriously, where are you getting this from? And please don't re-link that blog. That's not evidence. I want to know where you get the "it's what the industry does" and "what most MMORPGs have done for more than a decade now" from.

I'm going to try this one more time. In this time of less than stable economic conditions, where everyone and their dog are giving large corporations the hairy eyeball over their past conduct, where a great deal of people are already willing to believe every horror story and "fact" about EA and their operating practises, do you really think EA would do anything that would increase financial risk and/or losses? Do you really think that someone, somewhere, wouldn't try to take them to task for "misleading investors" should EA try to claim that free trials and free-to-play accounts are "active subscribers?"

EA would probably win any suit brought against them by activist investors, sure. But it would take time, and more importantly, money. And in a time when their stock has lost a great deal of value over the last few months, why would they do anything to risk pushing it even lower? And why would they waste the money they don't need to by defending themselves in any kind of suit when they could save that money by not putting themselves in that kind of situation in the first place?

For all we know,TOR could be making EA more than WoW makes Blizz, even if they have 10 times the subs TOR does. Way too many factors play into that, including how much of the profits go into future developments..